Re: [External] : Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib?

[Emanuel Berg]

Po Lu wrote:

>> It is loaded when it is used. When it is loaded is
>> a technicality at that point, unless the preloaded or not
>> distinction has some hidden meaning I'm unaware of.
>
> Preloaded Lisp is present within the dumped emacs binary,
> other Lisp is not. I don't think any distinction could be
> more marked than that.

Yes, but what does it matter if cl-lib is not loaded there?
It is loaded everywhere else and that is where it is used.
You can of course keep it out of some subset but that isn't
reducing its use everywhere else, which is what has been
identified as the problem.

>> "cl-loop" appears 1004 times in the Emacs source so a lot
>> of people put it do good use. I also think `cl-loop' is
>> very useful.
>
> Those 1004 instances are precisely what we are trying to
> prevent from growing, and then reduce. They are
> incomprehensible to Emacs Lisp programmers and therefore
> antithetical to how Emacs Lisp should be written.

Those who wrote it disagrees, they didn't see anything wrong
with using a library provided by Emacs. And I don't, either.

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