Re: [O] Some projects

[Rainer M Krug]

Rasmus <address@hidden> writes:

> Aaron Ecay <address@hidden> writes:
>
>> Hi Richard, hi all,
>>
>> 2015ko urriak 26an, Richard Lawrence-ek idatzi zuen:
>>> 
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> I was working on this rather intensively at one time, but I had to stop
>>>> because other aspects of life intruded.  I have just been coming back
>>>> towards a situation where I can imagine myself having some (still small,
>>>> but non-zero) chunks of time to devote to working on org.  So I hope I
>>>> will be able to pick this back up, but (regrettably) I’m not able to
>>>> make any promises.
>>>> 
>>>> Based on my recollection, here’s what the problems were when I stopped:
>>>> 
>>>> - The only “off the shelf”-capable citation processing library that we
>>>> found last time is in Haskell, which introduced some difficulties for
>>>> distributing the resulting tool.  I know some projects
>>>> (e.g. git-annex) are written in Haskell and distributed as static
>>>> binaries for windows/mac/linux/etc.  We’d need to figure out how to do
>>>> this, or find another citation processing library in an
>>>> easier-to-distribute language.
>>> 
>>> Yes, this is my understanding, too.  In particular, there does not seem
>>> to be an Elisp CSL library, and it would be a lot of work to write one.
>>> 
>>> The other CSL library that looks complete and usable is citeproc-js; but
>>> like the Haskell library (pandoc-citeproc) it would need to be wrapped
>>> somehow so that it can talk with Org.
>>> 
>>> It should be relatively straightforward for someone who knows Javascript
>>> to write such a wrapper, if anyone wants to work on that.  But this does
>>> not really solve the problem with distribution.  
>>
>> It solves many of the hard problems though.  Node.js is distributed
>> as a binary for many platforms.  We’d just have to direct users to
>> install this in the “normal way,” and use the installed binary to
>> interpret the JS source.  Whereas for haskell we’d be stuck building
>> the binary ourselves, worrying about static linking/dll hell/32-bit
>> dinosaurs/any of a half-dozen other problems that I don’t really
>> understand.
>
> I would feel more comfortable relying on a JS library.  Perhaps it’s also
> easier to find people who are willing to work on/knows JS over the long
> haul...
>
>> OTOH, pandoc-citeproc includes a bibtex parser; we’d need to write a JS
>> one and wire it up to citeproc-js.  When I looked (quite some time ago),
>> there did not seem to be any good bibtex parsing libraries in JS (and
>> several third-rate ones).
>
> Bibtex support is essential, of course.
>
> Can someone remind me why citeproc-java isn’t good?  AFAIR, it has a
> bibtex parser.  But probably it lacks in some other dimension...
>
>> OT3rdH, responding to Matt’s message
>> <http://mid.gmane.org/address@hidden>,
>>
>>> The disadvantage is that, from what I can tell, the javascript
>>> implementation is the canonical version of citeproc, and the place where
>>> improvements are pushed first.  So, for instance, if one wanted to
>>> implement an org-syntax output format for citeproc, citeproc-js would be
>>> the most likely project to support that work.
>>
>> Pandoc can output org syntax, so it may be that we can just link with
>> the main pandoc haskell library as well as pandoc-citeproc and solve
>> this ourselves, without needing upstream support.
>
> Do we WANT to depend on Pandoc?  I would say "no".  In my OS, where we
> finally got a binary distribution of pandoc, the size of pandoc is still
> 1600Mb!  I don’t know if this is representative of other systems, though.
> E.g. what is the size of pandoc+deps in Debian?

I don't know which OS you are using, but just checking on
[[https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/releases/1.15.1]]  and 
[[https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/releases/tag/1.15.1.1]]:

Windows: 19.7 MB
Mac    : 27.9 MB
Deb    : 20.2 MB

The 1600MB must be including LaTeX?

In General, I like the idea of using the Pandoc approach, as Pandoc
provides a very useful framework for all kinds of conversions (and I
don't like java...)

Nevertheless, I would be happy with whatever is used to implement
proper citation support.

Cheers,

Rainer

>
> Rasmus

-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, 
UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

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