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Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations
From: |
Nicolas Goaziou |
Subject: |
Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations |
Date: |
Sun, 20 Jun 2021 09:41:46 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) |
Hello,
"Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com> writes:
> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> wrote:
>> * Note style input (=semantically strict input)
>>
>> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>>
>> "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>>
>> As the input preserves the location of punctuation in the original
>> material, I'd say it should be much easier to deal with this. We
>> don't have to add information which isn't in the input, but rather
>> we'll just have to move any punctuation to after the citation
>> object. Maybe I'm missing something, but to me this looks like
>> a much simpler operation than going in the opposite direction.
This cannot be. We don't know anything about the cite after the
quotation. A bare cite could be starting out a new sentence:
"A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole] pretends…
OTOH, we know perfectly when a citation is meant to become a footnote
(at least in basic and csl processors). And we know — almost, as you
demonstrated — where to put that footnote.
Moreover, I think the syntax you propose has another drawback: it
doesn't correspond to any desired output (note or something else). As
this looks artificial, I fear it might hinder readability of the Org
document.
... period." [cite:@doe21] [cite/text:@doe21] pretends…
>> Maybe we should stop talking about author date vs note style input, but
>> rather about strict vs. non-strict input.
>
> It's definitely not author-date vs note. I see it as in-text citations
> vs note citations. As in, the former applies to other styles beyond
> author-date.
I think the current patch is purely about note citations. I mentioned
"author-date" in a docstring just because I didn't know how to express
it otherwise. So, in a way, I agree it can be considered as in-text
citations vs note citations, indeed.
> The example you are highlighlighting here was why I was earlier
> suggesting for a rule that would allow something like this input:
>
> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole].
>
> ... where the second would be dropped, hence getting the expected output.
This is interesting, but we might get false positives, as in the
following (far-fetched) example
… the so-called "foobar". [cite/text: See @hoel-71-whole p. 42].
which bites us because we need to process even non-note citations to
remove the spurious punctuation while ignoring the necessity of a given
punctuation character.
As another, imperfect, workaround, I submit the following idea for
consideration:
"A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole].
"A quotation ending with a period"[cite: @hoel-71-whole].
IOW, the presence or absence of a space before the citation determines,
according to a note rule, if the punctuation should go inside or outside
the quotation. When processing non-note citations, we just need to
ensure there is at least a space after the previous element, which is
less "dangerous" than removing punctuation.
I find it a bit too subtle, and so error-prone, but so is punctuation
anyway.
WDYT?
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, (continued)
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/12
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/13
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/13
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/13
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/13
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/13
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/14
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/14
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/14
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/14
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations,
Nicolas Goaziou <=
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Bruce D'Arcus, 2021/06/20
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Nicolas Goaziou, 2021/06/20
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/21
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Nicolas Goaziou, 2021/06/21
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/21
- Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations, Denis Maier, 2021/06/22