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Re: [PATCH v6 11/21] virtio-net: Return an error when vhost cannot enabl


From: Yuri Benditovich
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 11/21] virtio-net: Return an error when vhost cannot enable RSS
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 19:26:35 +0200



On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 2:44 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@daynix.com> wrote:
On 2023/11/13 20:44, Yuri Benditovich wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 5:28 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@daynix.com
> <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 2023/11/03 22:14, Yuri Benditovich wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 11:55 AM Akihiko Odaki
>     <akihiko.odaki@daynix.com <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>
>      > <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com
>     <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     On 2023/11/03 18:35, Yuri Benditovich wrote:
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 4:56 PM Akihiko Odaki
>      >     <akihiko.odaki@daynix.com <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>
>     <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>>
>      >      > <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com
>     <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>
>      >     <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com
>     <mailto:akihiko.odaki@daynix.com>>>> wrote:
>      >      >
>      >      >     On 2023/11/02 19:20, Yuri Benditovich wrote:
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 11:33 AM Michael S. Tsirkin
>      >      >     <mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>
>     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>>
>      >     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>
>     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>>>
>      >      >      > <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>
>     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>>
>      >     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>
>     <mailto:mst@redhat.com <mailto:mst@redhat.com>>>>> wrote:
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      >     On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 11:09:27AM +0200, Yuri
>      >     Benditovich wrote:
>      >      >      >      > Probably we mix two different patches in this
>      >     discussion.
>      >      >      >      > Focusing on the patch in the e-mail header:
>      >      >      >      >
>      >      >      >      > IMO it is not acceptable to fail QEMU run
>     for one
>      >     feature
>      >      >     that we
>      >      >      >     can't make
>      >      >      >      > active when we silently drop all other
>     features in
>      >     such a
>      >      >     case.
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      >     If the feature is off by default then it seems more
>      >     reasonable
>      >      >      >     and silent masking can be seen as a bug.
>      >      >      >     Most virtio features are on by default this is
>     why it's
>      >      >      >     reasonable to mask them.
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      >
>      >      >      > If we are talking about RSS: setting it initially
>     off is the
>      >      >     development
>      >      >      > time decision.
>      >      >      > When it will be completely stable there is no reason to
>      >     keep it
>      >      >     off by
>      >      >      > default, so this is more a question of time and of a
>      >     readiness of
>      >      >     libvirt.
>      >      >
>      >      >     It is not ok to make "on" the default; that will
>     enable RSS
>      >     even when
>      >      >     eBPF steering support is not present and can result in
>      >     performance
>      >      >     degradation.
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      > Exactly as it is today - with vhost=on the host does not
>     suggest RSS
>      >      > without  eBPF.
>      >      > I do not understand what you call "performance
>     degradation", can you
>      >      > describe the scenario?
>      >
>      >     I was not clear, but I was talking about the case of
>     vhost=off or peers
>      >     other than tap (e.g., user). rss=on employs in-qemu RSS,
>     which incurs
>      >     overheads for such configurations.
>      >
>      >
>      > So, vhost=off OR peers other than tap:
>      >
>      > In the case of peers other than tap (IMO) we're not talking about
>      > performance at all.
>      > Backends like "user" (without vnet_hdr) do not support _many_
>      > performance-oriented features.
>      > If RSS is somehow "supported" for such backends this is rather a
>      > misunderstanding (IMO again).
>
>     We do not need to ensure good performance when RSS is enabled by the
>     guest for backends without eBPF steering program as you say. In-QEMU
>     RSS
>     is only useful for testing and not meant to improve the performance.
>
>     However, if you set rss=on, QEMU will advertise the availability of RSS
>     feature. The guest will have no mean to know if it's implemented in a
>     way not performance-wise so it may decide to use the feature to improve
>     the performance, which can result in performance degradation.
>     Therefore,
>     it's better not to set rss=on for such backends.
>
>
> I still do not understand what is the scenario where you see or suspect
> the mentioned "performance degradation".
> We can discuss whether such a problem exists as soon as you explain it.

The scenario is that:
- rss=on,
- A backend without eBPF steering support is in use, and
- The guest expects VIRTIO_NET_F_RSS has little overheads as hardware
RSS implementations do.

I consider the risk of the performance degradation in such a situation
is the reason why virtio-net emits a warning ("Can't load eBPF RSS -
fallback to software RSS") when in-QEMU RSS is in use.

In a described scenario (vhost=off) I do not see why the performance degradation should happen:
the SW RSS (if activated) will place each packet into proper queue (even if the auto_mq in kernel is not able to do that) and such a way the guest will not need to reschedule the packet to proper CPU


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