Re: [Adonthell-devel] Attribute related questions

[Kai Sterker]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:59:23 +0100 Nils Fohrbeck wrote:

> ups,now we do actually getintotrouble because the rulessystem is not
> finished in time. Let me try to clarify (as far as I can remember).But
> then we can still chance the rules where we want to....

Right, that shouldn't be a big big deal. I do my best to make the
implementation modular and flexible. My biggest problem right now is
that everything is connected with everything else. So to do things
properly right from the beginning, I'll have to know how the rules are
supposed to work, what attributes there are, etc. The more details, the
better. That's why I'm asking :).


> I thought about two values here (like i did in that little test of
> mine). Ther is a normal rank with a maximum value (which is raised by
> gaining levels) and anotherone which is the bonus added to it (you
> gain this bonus via spells, potiohns items...), which might either be
> open ended or have a maximnum on it's own.

It is implemented exactly like this. For each attribute there is the
current rank and the maximum rank. As it is in the rules doc. And there
is the rank modifier, which can be either positive or negative and is
practically not limited. My first question was, to which of the two
values above this modifier should be applied. To the current, to the
maximum, or to both.

>From a technical point of view, I came to the conclusion that it makes
only sense to apply it to both (at least as far as temporary boni are
concerned). See my reasoning in the previous mail.


> >2. When increasing (or for that matter, decreasing) an Attribute like
> >   Hardness, this will also affect a number of derived properties,
> >   like Health and various resistances. Their maximum will be
> >   adjusted automatically, and nothing should speak against that.
> >   However, should their current value also be adjusted?

> well, we could just say the amulet increases the maximum but you still
> have to sleep (cast spells) to increase your current value. I suppose
> that is the way it is done in the Baldurs Gate games (should be the
> same in other games as well)

So we'd have an exception for Health and probably Power. And when
removing the effect, the current rank would be capped by the new
maximum.


> >On a completely different matter, there are some bugs in the rules
> >doc: On page 5 it says: "Melee damage represents the amount of damage
> >you deal in close combat. Melee damage is given in an interval of two
> >numbers, the first being the minimal, the second the maximal damage
> >you can inflict."
> >
> >On the next page, it says something like: melee damage is derived
> >from strength (strength * 1), but nothing more is said about minimum
> >and maximum.
> 
> 
> I think we meant that the strenght value is added to the melee damage
> as a bonus (we were not very clear here)

Ah, okay. And the melee damage is actually retrieved from the weapon,
and not part of the character, right?

I had some thoughts about characters that do not use weapons, like
animals. For them it would be nice to have such a melee damage range as
character stats. It might also be nice to have that for other
characters, in case they need to do unarmed combat. Not that they would
volunteer for that, but the plot might force them.

What do you think?


> >Also, the formula for the Ranged Damage property is missing
> >altogether.
> 
> Ranged damage should work the same way as melee (except you do not get
> a strenght bonus!)

Okay, now its clear :). And at least you know where there are problems
with understanding the rules ;).


> But you should also have a look at the mail I send
> you 2? days ago, were I made some more suggestions for combat. I think
> those were fairly convinient as well.

Sorry, those were not really clear to me. Seems the combat related
properties from the previous rules have been converted to skills (?).
Also, the calculations were sorta vague.

When attacking for example: do you that 2d6 skill-check on the current
melee rank of attacker and defense skill of defender and compare the
outcomes? Is the bonus applied before the check, or afterwards? Or am I
totally wrong?


> On a sidenote: I guess we will just have to test all of this (could
> you make a little test with the rules, even textbased would be cool),
> and then write a new rules doc, as it is implemented. 

Yeah, I plan to write some tests. But right now I am still trying to
assemble a character class with all the attributes assigned or
calculated in the proper way. Plus methods to access these values and
things like the modifiers (in as safe a way as possible with Python).

Once I have a character class that matches our rules, the rest is fairly
easy.

Could you get me updated about all the attributes, properties, abilities
and skills a character should have, and about the math involved? The
changes over the current rules doc. That would be a great help :).

Kai