Re: [aps-devel] From source?

[Lalo Martins]

On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 08:40:09PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 02:02:48PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote:
> > (...) a "public cache" of
> > binary packages to speed up the most common builds (...)
> 
> A valid solution would be that the packager uploads only source (or source
> plus a single arch). then end users automaticaly build it for their own use
> _and_ if they're at the time trusted developers their build is uploaded and
> shared.

I really like this design.  This also solves my other worries because such a
system could be written to look for someone with the same (USE-like)
preferences, optimization, etc as you (user).  This also blurs the
difference between user and "developer" which is both anarchistic and GNUish.

+1


> my/our idea was that the package-specific tree is a "translated" result
> of gathering network contents with GNUnet.

Quoting Wolfgang, I don't think I would use such a system.  It is for many
reasons safer (both in the sense of trust, and of not depending on the
network to be up) if GNUnet is used to *install* stuff, but once that is
done, the stuff is in my very local disk, in a more traditional fs.

> of course, you can gather sources from that.

As I argued before, this is silly.  There are already standard locations to
get sources from.


> > (The Linux port of aps would then need to manage installed files the way
> > more "traditional" packaging systems do.  No big deal - not as cool as the
> > Hurd alternative, but pretty straightforward).
> 
> this is not useful. we have dpkg already, which is very good in its context

You (plural) seem to be planning to host some portion of the development on
GNU/Linux, so rest assured there *will* be a Linux port of aps.  Therefore,
I will refrain to argue about its usefulness.


> > How does the user express the desire to install/update/remove a package?  By
> > running a program, as usual?  What about installing right off CVS, is it
> > possible at all?
> 
> every package should be updated automaticaly when the next version in archive
> matches the trust criteria that the user requires.

RED FLAG.  I would not use such a system.  Automatic updates are a BAD
THING.  If I get to the office monday morning and Galeon doesn't have a
feature I used to use, or it has but the UI changed, and this was because of
an update I didn't request and in fact couldn't have avoided, I get VERY
pissed off.  Heck, even if it just "magically" acquired new features I will
probably spend a few minutes playing with them when I should be working.

> it's possible to obtain it right off the cvs, for example it could be like:
> 
> /packages/<package>/cvs/<arch>/<binary_tree>

You probably mean source_tree?  Either way this is very nice.


> The goal is to create a tool that replaces both dpkg and apt. That tool would
> be dessigned exploiting the Hurd's capabilities to allow developers
> contributing anarchically (note i use anarchy as oposition to authority, not
> as chaos or disorder), by evaluating trust in a democratic way.

Ok, this is fine.  Technically, I don't think dpkg/apt is the best thing to
emulate, anymore; right now I would choose Portage as a starting point if I
felt I needed one.

The way I see it, the task you (plural) are tackling has many aspects, and
you (singular) seem to be concerned primarly with the binary-sharing portion
of it.  That is no problem, but this is a just part of the problem, and one
that doesn't excite me too much ;-)

However I (and perhaps Wolfgang?) am more interested in the fact that the
use of this system results in an OS, and this OS seems to be, alas, GNU.
So, unless we decide to start another project, we will have to discuss here
some things that aren't really related to package management, too - for
example, the hot topic of initialization and shutdown, daemon control
policies, etc.  I hope that's ok.

[]s,
                                               |alo
                                               +----
--
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               lose both and deserve neither.
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