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Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax
From: |
Stephen Wilson |
Subject: |
Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax |
Date: |
05 Jun 2007 13:16:55 -0400 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.4 |
Gabriel Dos Reis <address@hidden> writes:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Stephen Wilson wrote:
>
> | Gabriel Dos Reis <address@hidden> writes:
> |
> | > Stephen Wilson <address@hidden> writes:
> | >
> | > | Gabriel Dos Reis <address@hidden> writes:
> | > |
> | > | > Stephen Wilson <address@hidden> writes:
> | > | >
> | > | > | Greetings,
> | > | > |
> | > | > | I stumbled upon a curious facility of Boot and SPAD this evening. I
> | > | > | do not recall, nor can I find, a reference to this in the list
> | > | > | archives or in any documentation. Please correct me if I am wrong.
> | > | >
> | > | > Since we have at least two versions of Boot around, you need to
> qualify
> | > | > your Boot by either "old" or "new" or variations thereof.
> | > |
> | > | When I say Boot, I mean the Boot which is used in Axiom.
> | >
> | > Why do you think I meant something else?
> |
> | The basic point is that, by the time AXIOMsys is generated, there is a
> | function BOOTTRAN::BOOTTOCL. AFAIK, there are two such functions with
> | the same name defined in src/boot/ptyout.boot.pamphlet and
> | src/interp/util.lisp.pamphlet. The latter version is the one which
> | lives in an Axiom image, and also depsys. Thats the boot Im refering
> | to.
>
> OK.
> We are back to my earlier point: When you say Boot, you need to qualify it.
I think I have a picture now. I perceive there to be three boots. Old,
New, and New-New (your improved boot).
> FYI, the boottocl defined src/interp is scheduled for death (as is depsys).
> The plan is to migrate to bootsys. See the comment in the source codes.
I know you want this to occur.
[...]
> | Its not that I dont like your answer, its just that I havent gotten
> | one yet.
>
> Looks to me that you're not interested in one.
>
> Because the original message had several of them.
I was interested in a construct which I thought might be a
little-known feature. I wanted to know what use it had, in the
contexts of SPAD and Boot. I was clear in indicating that it can be
interpeted is a simple callout to Lisp.
Regardless, I now understand the function of the operator. I _do_
appreciate you lending your insight.
[...]
> | > | Given the lack of specification, and given the lack of use of such a
> | > | feature, these are not bugs in Axiom by any stretch.
> | >
> | > In this specific case, the bugs I've came across happen to be in the
> | > manually written Lisp parts, like restart -- I believe I already
> | > mentioned that.
> |
> | Ok, I asked what the package call operator ' (or ::) means, and now
> | your just saying that if CL'FOO has undefined behaviour its a bug in
> | Axiom as opposed to a bug in the language semantics of Boot (or SPAD
> | for that matter).
>
> That is not what I'm saying.
The only other interpretation I can come to by rereading the
discussion is that CL'FOO (or CL::FOO) is effectively an escape syntax
into Lisp, and as such Boot does not define semantics for such
constructs. Similar to C's asm.
If this is correct, my appologies. I was under some misunderstanding
that Boot was going to abstract away such things. I really did think
it was possible that Boot had its own notion of `package', not
necessarily conincident with Lisp's.
[...]
> | What is a Boot package?
>
> A Boot package is no different from Lisp package: a name space.
>
> Old Boot assumes that everything goes into the BOOTTRAN package.
>
> New Boot assumes that people are responsible of pushing into the package
> the want.
> | How do you create one from Boot?
>
> I believe in CLTLx, a reference to a package creates that package if it
> does not already exist. Boot uses that semantics.
I understand now.
If anything, I would highly recommend Boot be updated to emit ANSI
Common Lisp.
[...]
> | I am primarily interested in the SPAD case.
>
> In the specific case of Spad, that specific construct can go away.
Ok. I thought as much.
> | I was hoping for some
> | illustration of how the construct is put to use in SPAD. As I feel
> | direct Lisp callouts from SPAD are a dangerous thing,
>
> No more dangerous than pretend.
>
> What we need is not to prevent people to call Lisp -- they will, and there
> are legitimate cases where one needs to access the assembly-language
> (currently only Lisp). What we need is an assembly-indepedent interface,
Yep. I agree in principle.
> | I need some
> | convincing that this construct is useful/necessary. As I mentioned,
> | it would seem the construct is unused, and thus support could be
> | easily removed from the system.
>
> Since the same parser is used to parse Old Boot, you'll also need more than
> superficial examination that no Boot codes uses it.
Yes. I will modify the parser to emit a message on encountering the
construct.
Thanks,
Steve
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, (continued)
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Ralf Hemmecke, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax,
Stephen Wilson <=
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Gabriel Dos Reis, 2007/06/05
- Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot/SPAD package syntax, Stephen Wilson, 2007/06/05