Re: debbugs tracker builds character

[Michael Albinus]

Ted Zlatanov <address@hidden> writes:

Hi Ted,

>>> I wish I knew why people find the current bug tracker acceptable. It
>>> reminds me of the old ftpmail/DEC gatekeeper where you sent e-mails
>>> requesting files:
>
> MA> One of the requirements for a bug tracker for Emacs was, that it must be
> MA> possible to control everything via email. That's one of the reasons
> MA> debbugs was chosen.
>
> IMHO that's not an actual requirement. It's an implementation detail.

<http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/60833/focus=60976>

That thread is the 10 years old discussion on emacs-devel, which ended
up in deciding for debbugs. And I find the reasoning for using email
still convincing.

> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:44:03 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> LI> The web interface?  No, that's not a very pleasant interface, but I
> LI> think `M-x debbugs-gnu' is a better bug tracker interface than most.  :-)
>
> There's a separation between the UI and the underlying functionality.
>
> IMHO, the underlying bug tracker is extremely limited.
>
> IMVHO, the `M-x debbugs-gnu' UI is decent but only because of a lot of
> hacking, and the same UI could be applied to other bug trackers. In
> other words, the reasons why it's good are not due to the bug tracker. I
> could be wrong on this, though, I don't know the internals well, I've
> just looked through the code.

In general, you are right. First there was debbugs.el, which is a
backend talking to the debbugs server (of Gnu or of Debian, both
works). debbugs-gnu.el (and debbugs-org.el) were written years later,
being just the UI, and being directed to the Gnu debbugs server. So
there exist already a separation, although the interface between
debbugs.el and debbugs-gnu.el is mainly driven by functions offered from
debbugs.el.

> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:58:24 +0200 Michael Albinus
> <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> MA> Patches welcome! Or at least precise proposals what you would like to
> MA> get improved. "VCS integration" sounds too vague to me.
>
> The bug tracker should be aware of repositories, branches, commits,
> contributors, and ticket links or mentions in commit messages.
> Contributors should be able to tag and notify each other. Markdown etc.
> should be well supported. Inline code comments should be easy, and
> linked to a commit (so an updated commit can resolve the comment). This
> is just the essential stuff.

Some of this exist already (tags), maybe underdocumented. For the rest I
must at least sleep one night :-)

> I think this is not something you can solve with patches or good UI. It
> requires a tool architected correctly from the start. Such tools exist 
> aplenty.

A practical counter-argument: do you believe that debbugs is *such* bad
that the vast majority of Emacs developers will follow you for a new bug
tracker? I'm not a debbugs missionary, but in my daily work I found it
sufficient. Somehow.

> Ted

Best regards, Michael.