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Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size inc
From: |
Zenaan Harkness |
Subject: |
Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases |
Date: |
Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:13:03 +1000 |
On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 05:42, Thomas Lord wrote:
> > From: Dustin Sallings <address@hidden>
>
> > Could it be true that the benefit of adopting arch is the fact
> that it
> > uses shell meta characters in some of its filenames that cause
> > confusion for some users?
>
> If you say "a benefit" instead of "the benefit" then I would agree
> that that is, at the least, a hypothesis worh considering. Yes.
>
> As supporting proto-evidence: I think it increases the value of arch
> tremendously that there a modest handful of people doing real-world
> (sometimes even deep-pocketed) work with it who embrace the
> conventions that confuse newbies and, when asked, tell newbies to "get
> over it". There's a dual message there: (a) "arch is very valuable"
> and (b) "your petty concerns are woefully and harmfully misplaced".
I like this argument.
I would like to see arch work well on w32 environments, as part of my
subversive plans for world domination (I understand this is in plan),
and I do think "likely to wipe out your tree" lessons are perhaps a
little harsh for those who get bitten by them. There's a balance there
somewhere...
> > > Some people run smack into arch as newbies, experience great
> > > frustration, then emerge as better unix users and better hackers
> > > generally. One small part of that, when it happens, is a shift of
> > > perspective about the various issues that get discussed endlessly on
> > > this list. So, what exactly is it I'm supposed to fix about this?
>
> > Perhaps you should stop thinking of arch as a UNIX education
> > tool.
>
> I think of all good Unix tools and projects as, in part, unix
> education tools. Why shouldn't I? What the hell is the alternative
> given the relative lengths of project lifetimes and human-career-phase
> lifetimes? Are you insane? Of *course* the tutorial function is a
> critical part of arch.
I don't think we're insane, just too well-schooled as opposed to
actually educated. An unfortunate consequence of our unceasing march
into Plato's utopian Republic over the last century and a half (since
the imposition of forced schooling, and since when (US, free population)
literacy has been consistently lower than prior. rant rant...
> A system that holographically presents itself --- what a win.
Sounds way cool.
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: newbies should neither be seen nor heard, (continued)
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: newbies should neither be seen nor heard, Mikhael Goikhman, 2004/10/15
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: Re: newbies should neither be seen nor heard, John S. Yates, Jr., 2004/10/15
- [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Zenaan Harkness, 2004/10/18
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Miles Bader, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Thomas Lord, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Dustin Sallings, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Thomas Lord, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases,
Zenaan Harkness <=
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Zenaan Harkness, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Barriers to Adoption: exponential userbase size increases, Adrian Irving-Beer, 2004/10/18
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: newbies should neither be seen nor heard, Stig Brautaset, 2004/10/17
- [Gnu-arch-users] arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Mikhael Goikhman, 2004/10/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Miles Bader, 2004/10/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Mikhael Goikhman, 2004/10/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Miles Bader, 2004/10/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Mikhael Goikhman, 2004/10/17
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Miles Bader, 2004/10/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: arch's file naming scheme is shell unfriendly, Dustin Sallings, 2004/10/18