address@hidden: Re: Features: Scroll wheel/ball, right bar]

[Richard M. Stallman]

This would be worth taking a look at, I think.
I cannot do so myself.


From: Hans Aberg <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Features: Scroll wheel/ball, right bar
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:07:22 +0100
To: address@hidden
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On 8 Dec 2005, at 05:54, Richard M. Stallman wrote:

>     I think that a Linux variation of the Fink <http://
>     fink.sourceforge.net/> install/deinstall system
>
> I took a brief look at that site, but I could not see anything about
> an "install/deinstall system".  Could you please send me whatever
> text you think I should read?

It is very hard to understand what it is all about without trying, so  
I would you think you need to get hold of somebody who can show it to  
you on a Mac to actually see how it works (also see below). I was  
myself very skeptical about it, thinking traditional installs would  
be the only right way, and although I have had it for six months on  
my computer, I did not use it. But when I now tried it for only two  
installs, emacs21 and xboard/crafty (rated at about ELO 2600), it is  
indeed very impressive in the category of ease of use. The underlying  
point is that its install scripts are very powerful, I think written  
in Perl. This is then combined with a GUI, called FinkCommander, so  
that one does not have to do console commands for the installs,  
updates and deinstalls.

> Meanwhile, what would be meant by a "Linux variation" of that
> install/deinstall system?  What does an install/deinstall system have
> to do with the kernel?

Fink is just a regular program that has the capacity to download  
programs automatically over the Internet in binary or source form,  
and make sure it gets properly installed, via FinkCommander by means  
of a click in a GUI, keeping track of package dependencies in the  
process, and one can equally easily deinstall programs. It can also  
check for updates of latest versions. There is currently a list of  
1938 packages listed in the window on my computer, from which I can  
read package info, go to package documentation, or choose to  
immediately install if I so which, plus more. The installed stuff is  
put into a special directory /sw/, which does not touch anything  
else. So one can easily take the whole Fink installation away by  
merely removing this directory, or reinstall it at need.

The whole point is the tremendous ease if use: if a binary is  
available, one can get that one, which is provides a very quick  
install. If no binary is available, more common on later program  
versions, one can get  down the sources and get it compiled, with  
automatic tracking of package dependencies. The user needs thus not  
do any real hands-on install work.

A bottleneck, though, is that packages need to be adapted to work  
with Fink. Therefore it does not replace traditional installs or CVS  
versions. But even if one needs how to do traditional installs, Fink  
is convenient if one just wants to run a program without wanting to  
do the regular install chores. One can then move on to traditional  
installs at need.


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From: Hans Aberg <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Features: Scroll wheel/ball, right bar
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:17:30 +0100
To: address@hidden
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[Please do not bother replying to every letter I send you now,  
because I am just dropping off some inputs for you to sort out what  
is useful to you, so that I can move on with my own stuff, not  
keeping this stuff overly on my mind. I will attempt answer whatever  
questions you may have, though.]

>     I think that a Linux variation of the Fink <http://
>     fink.sourceforge.net/> install/deinstall system
>
> I took a brief look at that site, but I could not see anything about
> an "install/deinstall system".  Could you please send me whatever
> text you think I should read?

 From the point of view of a GUN system/Linux installation, Fink is a  
regular UNIX program and the sources are available at <http:// 
fink.sourceforge.net/download/srcdist.php?phpLang=en>, though they  
probably must be adapted to work on a UNIX different from that of Mac  
OS X. On top of that, for ease of use, is a GUI oriented program,  
FinkCommander <http://finkcommander.sourceforge.net/>, but what it  
does probably can be easily programmed in Emacs, in a tools package  
(like Gnus, Mail, etc), as the essential parts only call the UNIX  
program "fink". As mentioned before, Fink handles software installs/ 
deinstalls/updates, with dependencies, via Internet, into a  
directory /sw/. That is about it: what cannot be seen from this  
description is the impressive ease of use, which can only be  
experienced.

   Hans Aberg
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