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Re: [Health-dev] ICD10PCS - add to products


From: Luis Falcon
Subject: Re: [Health-dev] ICD10PCS - add to products
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 04:15:13 -0400

Hi, Chris !
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:00:53 -0700
Chris <address@hidden> wrote:

> Hiya!
> 
> On 03/19/15, Luis Falcon wrote:
> > Hi Chris !
> > On Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:34:26 -0700
> > Chris <address@hidden> wrote:
> > 
> > > Unless I'm missing something, the icd10pcs module does not create
> > > products (in the products model) for invoicing. I'm wondering if
> > > it should? On a clean install, it seems I have to manually enter
> > > the product for the invoice. Instead, create a Procedures
> > > category, and add all the procedures to the products for easy
> > > invoicing/billing. Easy changes to data files (although, they are
> > > huge already!).
> > > 
> > > Thoughts? Hehe, hopefully not missing the obvious and the
> > > functionality already exists. =-)
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > The health_service module is the guy that mediates between the
> > actual services and what to invoice or not.
> > 
> > The thing is that health_services is generic, meaning that it does
> > not match a specific procedure / coding with its related product /
> > service on the product model.
> 
> Yeah, from what I gather the workflow is something like:
> 
> Health_services > Create > Input name (other info) > Create Invoice >
> Invoices > Add product line > Post
> 
> Mostly manually entered information.
> 
> > We've been thinking on the best way to actually make the procedures
> > appear on the service model upon completion. For instance, Dx
> > imaging, lab, surgeries, procedures, evaluations / encounters,
> > meds, ...
> 
> Agreed!
> 
> > As you can see, there is not a fixed way to approach this. One thing
> > that I thought was to introduce the "serviceable" attribute on the
> > models, so from there, we can select the related product, but also
> > linking it to the ID and description of the service itself.
> >
> > We have to come to a balance between functionality and
> > concreteness . Your example is a very good one. We should not
> > associate each medical procedure to a product. The ICD10PCS has
> > over 72000 procedures, and the ICPM over 800. Similar things would
> > happen in the labs, imaging, etc...
> > 
> > I think that grouping in terms of evaluations / encounters,
> > surgeries (and not the procedures within it), etc .. and having a
> > link from the services model, we could drill down and see the
> > details.
> 
> You make good points about this. Here, procedural coding for billing
> is almost absolute. For better or worse. So, this is important,
> especially because how tedious it is to *manually* input procedure
> codes (with long descriptions) into invoices.
> 
> That is, mark what models are invoice-relevant? It seems to me, also,
> that the default behaviour for 'serviceable' models should be to
> create an health_services line. That is, a lab test request should,
> for example, create a line on the health_services row with pertinent
> info already saved. Then, the user can decide whether to create the
> actual invoice, ignore that service, etc.
> 
Agree ! The only thing is, where we draw the line... there are many
procedures that are done in the medical practice, but won't be reflected
on the services, or they will be reflected as part of a major / global
service. For instance, let's think about taking the blood pressure on a
regular visit. From the medical point of view is quite relevant, yet, we
would include it on the encounter, and not create a dedicated line for
it.

As ususal, we have to find the balance :)

> How to tie the invoice to a product -- that's where the groupings come
> in, you think?
> 
> > This is a hot topic in GNU Health and we need to address it in this
> > 3.0.
> 
> Agreed! =-)
> 
> There is a task for health_services functionality, but do you think we
> should create a task for this larger issue? For example, "Connect
> billable services to health_services module"?

I think that once we have automated the link between procedures ->
services, the billing part should be OK, since it's just marking which
of the lines should be part of the invoice.

What do you think ?

Best,
Luis

> 
> All the best,
> 
> -C
> 
> 




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