Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Fight Trademark with Libremark

[Aaron Wolf]

Aurelien,

You are misunderstanding my points.

I know your intention is great. I understand free-as-in-freedom and am
not disturbed by that at all.

I am not disturbed that people have the freedom to publish new software,
new websites, new works. The freedom is absolutely important. I am
disturbed by the trend of publishing new sites without checking what
already exists, without checking with the community. I do not wish to
take away that freedom, I wish for people to *choose* to hesitate and
talk to others before they use their freedom to publish new things. I
want you to have the choice, I just want you to choose well and not rush.

Trademark is very different from copyright and patents. Copyright and
patents are bad (although we happen to use copyright licenses to protect
freedoms today). Trademark is a consumer protection largely. But it can
be abused, so I think the idea of making a more respectful trademark is
an interesting thing to consider. I'm just not sure about the details.

I definitely do not think that the Git trademark is a free-as-in-freedom
issue the way it is with proprietary software licenses. Trademarks do
not need to be completely free the way software does. Trademarks are not
fundamentally bad the way patents are.

I like GitBull in principle, and I hope you either resolve the trademark
issue (i.e. get permission) or just change the name of the site but
continue the work.

Respectfully,
Aaron


On 03/22/2015 02:27 PM, Aurélien DESBRIÈRES wrote:
> Tobias Platen <tobias@platen-software.de> writes:
> 
>> On 22.03.2015 14:05, Aaron Wolf wrote:
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>>>
>>> Although I felt generally positive about the work with GitBull, both
>>> that *and* the "LibreMark" work exhibit a pattern that I do not like:
>>>
>>> Announcing the idea as somethi that is now already being done.
>>>
>>> I think you have a habit of skipping the step of coordinating with /
>>> checking with other people interested in the topic before making
>>> something.
>>>
>>> You would have learned more about the trademark issues with GitBull if
>>> you had proposed or discussed the idea before simply making it. You
>>> would learn more about trademark and people's views of it by
>>> discussing it before creating a proposed LibreMark thing.
>>>
>>> On glancing at it, the LibreMark idea seems to hold some merit,
>>> although I think it may be overkill, I'm not yet sure it is warranted.
>>> I don't yet have a real opinion here.
>>>
>>> I just really prefer that people do their due diligence to research
>>> what exists and check with others before just running out and making
>>> new projects. Often, other people have valuable ideas or valuable work
>>> has been developed for a long time, and the tendency to just bypass
>>> all that and start a new project is, I think, not as healthy as
>>> checking about what is or isn't working and what lessons others have
>>> learned etc. and then starting new projects with the buy-in from the
>>> community early on.
>>>
>>> That said, you're sharing this now, so there's room for discussion.
>>> I'm not trying to shame you. I just feel awkward about the first
>>> announcement of a problem being joined immediately with already acting
>>> to solve it without discussion in between.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that the SFC being protective of the Git trademark is a
>>> bad thing in any sense here. I'm not sure that it's a problem that
>>> needs solving. But I'm not sure that LibreMark is a bad idea either. I
>>> haven't had time to make sense of this. I just definitely don't have
>>> the immediate "this is wrong" reaction to the trademark situation that
>>> you had.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>> On 03/22/2015 06:22 AM, Aurélien DESBRIÈRES wrote:
>>>> Hello LibrePlanet mates,
>>>>
>>>> Recently I have created https://gitbull.org to create a fully free
>>>>   solution in front the trouble of gitorious.
>>>>
>>>> Then, the Software Freedom Conservancy contact me because we use
>>>> *git* in the name.
>>>>
>>>> I understand their position and *hope* for a solution.
>>>>
>>>> This point make me think that with trademark we are not Free As In
>>>>   Freedom and so, we all need something more corresponding to our
>>>> way of think: Freedom.
>>>>
>>>> Thank *LibreMark* Born \o/
>>>>
>>>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:LibreMark
>>>>
>>>> Now, we need lawyer improvement to make it powerfull and to
>>>> protect our freedom higher.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Please do not use the biased term "intellectual property" (see
>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html)
>>
>> Tobias Platen
> 
> Things are made to evolve.
> 
> Trademark represent a true problem in front freedom of action in
> freedom.
> 
> Aaron, I am free as in freedom, (sorry that disturb you so much)
> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanet:About#Founding_Documents
> So that the name 'LibrePlanet' is strongly associated with a clear goal,
> and so individual groups can cooperate and collaborate effectively, all
> LibrePlanet participants agree with a set of foundational
> principles. Participants are still free to act independently and have
> their own understandings within teams, but these are the principles
> which apply to the broader LibrePlanet project and we recommend that
> they be used for all activity. 
> 
> #userop is cool, but #libreplanet is also a place for innovation.
> 
> Everythings i have ever done are public:
> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Aurelien
> 
> Aaron the only thing you are right is that i *bypass* but I do not
> bypass the Free Software Community, I bypass / hack the proprietary
> world.
> 
> That point could be disturbing, but you can (as it is writted in the
> Libreplanet founding document) join, pleased and have fun!
> 
> Yes, I am a true free thinker!
> 
> https://gitbull.org is a gift to the Free Software Community
> 
> and *Libremark* need improvement from the *lawyer* of the FSF.
> 
> So Aaron if you are a lawyer, or something else, join and improve
> because we need to bring freedom higher.
> 
> One day I have ping the United Nations about Freedom Rights and their
> respect, hours after the General Secretary says publicly that everyone
> is free (with or without law degree) to defend the Universal Declaration
> of Human Rights. 
> 
>