Re: follow-up to report 22

[Valentin Villenave]

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Joe Neeman <address@hidden> wrote:
> If the archives were public, it might deter people from speaking frankly.

I understand; however having public archives is also something
important for the project's history. The best compromise I could come
up with would be to make discussions public after a number of years.

Again, this looks to me like a thing from the past: when considering a
project in its infancy, or at least where people stay the same year
after year, public archives are quite dispensable. Once you've reached
a point where the development team is gradually renewed and few (if
any) of the original developers are still around, this question has to
be raised sooner or later.

> Obviously, everyone knows by now that we've had a thread discussing David;
> had there been public archives (or a plan to make them public in the
> future), that conversation would have probably gone off-list. Which defeats
> the purpose of having such a list in the first place.

That's a interesting example. As far as I can see, David got listed as
a LilyPond developer only in late June 2010 (and I'm guessing he
didn't have git access much earlier in 2010). If, as has been stated,
the only 4 emails on -hackers in 2010 were about "reviving -hackers",
then it proves that any earlier discussion you guys might have had
regarding David was actually not followed by any concrete action until
much later. (Again, I can only guess.)

Besides, while I certainly don't want to speak on his behalf, David
doesn't strike me as the kind of person who can't take being directly
criticized, even in a non-polite way. (I would probably, and do, react
a lot more badly in such a situation.)

> I doubt anyone objects to having a public list of the -hackers members. If
> we do create such a list, it's probably more efficient just to get a list
> from the list administrator rather than sleuthing around.

Well, as it happens Xavier's original email about "secrete mailing
lists" (his words, not mine) was also sent to the -hackers list
administrator. However, I have yet to see any answers from him,
privately or in this thread.

(And, yes, Han-Wen really is a busy man and I can perfectly understand
that these questions may seem trivial and uninteresting to him.
However, when it comes to "reassurance", a few words go a long way.)

> Do you really think that having a private mailing list damages the project?

Potentially, yes (it does to me, I'm not sure about others).

> That is, assuming that we are open about its existence/purpose/whatever?

Then it would make quite a difference. This "openness", or rather the
need for it, is precisely why we're having this conversation!

Thanks for the thorough conversation.

Valentin.