Re: we now have "lilypond" organization on GitHub

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/9/16 David Kastrup <address@hidden>:
> [a rant about GitHub being proprietary etc.]

Well, that's true.
I wish github was Free, but see below.

> The whole genesis of Git itself is a story about how "free" proprietary
> services can come to bite you in your behind at the least convenient
> moment: Linux was developed using BitKeeper, and BitKeeper's owner
> decided to lock Linux out when someone developed a free client for
> accessing the repository that he did not like.
>
> So Torvalds had to write his own version control system in a hurry, and
> not everybody has a Torvalds at his disposal.

Speaking of Torvalds and Git genesis, in a talk about Git he said this:

Quoted from https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/LinusTalk200705Transcript:
> I needed a replacement for BitKeeper. The reason for that was
> BitKeeper is a commercial product, but BitMover and Larry McVoy
> allowed it to be used freely for open source projects, as some of
> you may know, the only restriction was that you were not supposed
> to reverse engineer it and you were not supposed to try to create
> a competing product. And I was happy with that, because quite
> frankly as far as I am concerned, I do open source because I
> think it is the only right way to do software, but at the same
> time I would use the best tool for the job, and quite frankly
> BitKeeper was it.

I agree with him: use the best available tool for the job.  It would
be great if the best tool was Free Software, but if it's not, move on.
 If i had infinite time supply, i would promptly start writing my own
Free Software "replacement" (or contribute to Savannah), but i don't
have the resources.

In my opinion Github is the best tool for the job, and i'm going to
use it.  I'm not forcing anyone to use it, and in my opinion using
Github is not creating a serious vendor lock-in nor any strong
dependance on non-free software; we can opt-out anytime we want.
It's not like storing your data in a proprietary format which causes
lots of trouble when you want to change your tools.

> Graham Percival <address@hidden> writes:
>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:49:42AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
>>> > What's wrong with GitHub, anyway?
>>>
>>> It requires separate accounts and credentials (much more likely to be a
>>> target for attacks), has its own "terms of service", may choose to
>>> discontinue projects based on commercial criteria, can cause tool
>>> lock-in and so on, relies on its own proprietary software.
>>
>> All the above is true, but github also provides a nicer way for
>> developers to interact with git, by at least one order of
>> magnitude.
>
> So the question is what we should be telling the Savannah operators to
> make working on GNU projects using Git more feasible.

Here you go:
A web interface with online editor, allowing to create commits from a
web browser, on any branch (as well as creating branches), integrated
with pull requests and automatic forking (so that when someone without
write access tries to modify a file, Savannah automatically forks the
repository for him and when he's done making the change, a pull
request is sent to the original repository).  Also, being able to post
comments on commits, and integration of pull requests with code
review.  And the ability to update a pull request with new commits.

As far as i know Savannah doesn't have these features.  When it will
have, i'll be happy to switch, but i don't expect it will happen today
or tomorrow, so i'm going to use Github for now.


2013/9/16 David Kastrup <address@hidden>:
> Janek Warchoł <address@hidden> writes:
>> Together with ease of use mentioned by Graham this can result in more
>> contributors joining Lily development.
>
> You mean, more non-contributors forking LilyPond Development.  It is
> already easy to clone your own Git repository from Savannah.  Anybody
> can set up a clone of LilyPond anywhere, including on GitHub.
> [....] If people want to fork LilyPond, why should we roll out the
> red carpet for them?  They are free to do it on their own.

It's easy for you.  It's easy for me, after being a Lilypond developer
for over 2 years.
It's not easy for everyone.

Janek