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Overlapping groups?


From: Menu Jacques
Subject: Overlapping groups?
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 23:46:14 +0200

Hello folks,

The MusicXML DTD’s 3.0 specify that:

The number attribute is used to distinguish overlapping
and nested part-groups, not the sequence of groups. 

In 2014, see https://forums.makemusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2730, Michael Good mentions that he hasn’t got any example exhibiting overlapping part groups:

by Hans Vereyken » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:20 am:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the quick reply.
I can't think of any score where one would need overlapping groups, if I look at it, it always is possible (and more clear) with nested groups. Can you give me an example of a score that needs overlapping groups to get correct results? I did search for this situations in experimental scores but even there I couldn't find an example.

by Michael Good » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:59 am:

Hi Hans,

I don't have an example right now. I would expect it wouldn't be too hard to find in (for instance) manuscripts where barlines across staves and brackets may have been drawn inconsistently.

And in https://forums.makemusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2149&p=5425&hilit=overlapping+default+x+part+groups#p5425, we learn that default-x is the way to decipher such groups:

Michael Good wrote:
Bonjour Hervé,

There is no hierarchy implied in part-group elements. All that matters is the sequence of part-group elements relative to score-part elements. The sequencing of two consecutive part-group elements does not matter. It is the default-x attribute that indicates the left-to-right ordering of the group symbols.

So my question is: has anyone ever seen a use case for overlapping, non-nested part groups?

LilyPond's unofficial example 41f-StaffGroups-Overlapping.xml displays as the attached image in Finale 2014 after moving the bracket for ‘Group 2’ slightly to the left:


but musicxml2ly handles ‘Group 2' differently:

Thanks if can bring light to this topic!

JM



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