Re: [Ltib] Problem using LTIB

[Stuart Hughes]

HI Daniel,

I got a response I'm not that happy about, but I maybe that's what you
expect with a basic ISP package.  Please complain to them if the
bandwidth continues to be poor.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

Thank you for your patience.

We would like to inform you that download speed will vary based upon the
load on the platform. Also, Numbers can vary from 30 kb / sec during
peak periods to 300 kb/sec during slow periods. However, we have also
tested using an internal tool and was able to perform a download of the
file at 863 kb/sec.Using an external tool I was able to download the
file at 175 kb/sec. Also, please note that geographic location will make
a big difference in download speeds.

If you have any further questions, please update the Support Console.

Sincerely,

xxxx xxxxxx
Technical Specialist
------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards, Stuart

Stuart Hughes wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I managed to raise a support ticket and the ISP say they can reproduce
> the problem and will look into it.  I will send an update when I hear
> any more.
> 
> Regards, Stuart
> 
> Stuart Hughes wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> I just tried again today (Sunday at 13:23 UTC) and got 280 KBytes/sec,
>> which is better, but still not outstanding.
>>
>> I tried to raise a support query with Globat but at the moment I get this:
>>
>> Forbidden
>> You don't have permission to access /support/index.bml on this server.
>>
>> When I tried to submit it.  I'll try again later in the week, maybe
>> they're doing maintenance.
>>
>> Regards, Stuart
>>
>> Stuart Hughes wrote:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> I just tried here (at home) and it bobbed around 36 K Bytes per second,
>>> which is slow.  I'll need to investigate, can't promise when I can get
>>> to this though as I'm maxed out.
>>>
>>> Regards, Stuart
>>>
>>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>> I'm in California.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Stuart Hughes [mailto:address@hidden 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 4:13 AM
>>>> To: Aaron Wegner
>>>> Cc: address@hidden; Daniel Brown
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ltib] Problem using LTIB
>>>>
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I'll try downloading that test case file as soon as I get some time and
>>>> report back.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to hear from anyone that has recently been
>>>> download and gets good bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>> What's I'd like to figure is whether there's any pattern to this.
>>>>
>>>> BTW: what's you're location? I'm in the UK.  The server is in California
>>>> AFAIK.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Stuart
>>>>
>>>> Aaron Wegner wrote:
>>>>> Stuart,
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried again just now for the fun of it.  I'm using the file
>>>>> linux-2.6.13.tar.gz as a test case.  Both sites start out fairly well,
>>>>> around 70 KB/sec, but bitshrine.org drops very quickly to 1 KB/sec,
>>>> then
>>>>> after a while bounces back up to 100 KB/sec, then drops again quickly
>>>> to 1
>>>>> KB/sec.  I'm estimating an average of 10 KB/sec or less.  Firefox
>>>> seems
>>>>> capable of completing the download this year, while wget often fails. 
>>>>> With kernel.org I'm floating between 40 KB/sec and 460 KB/sec.  Appear
>>>> to
>>>>> be averaging 120 KB/sec.  It seems like bitshrine.org or globat.com
>>>> might
>>>>> not play nice with machines if it perceives a lower download rate on
>>>> the
>>>>> opposite end.  The result is I am basically not able to download from
>>>> the
>>>>> gpp.  In the past it has worked here.  Maybe it works well if the
>>>> network
>>>>> is unoccupied.  Would be nice it it worked "better" when the network
>>>> is
>>>>> occupied.  Seems like if you have a good network life is good and if
>>>> you
>>>>> don't then you're punished doubly!  I'm not doubting it's related to
>>>>> something in our network, but of all the sites I've been to only the
>>>> gpp
>>>>> is prohibitively slow, so it might be something on that end as well.
>>>> I
>>>>> used to download from work without an issue and have downloaded in the
>>>>> past from home without an issue.  The whole time I've been typing this
>>>>> email I'm at 11% on my kernel.  The toolchains are even bigger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aaron
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Aaron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I can say is that when I nearly always get good bandwidth (a few
>>>>>> hundred Kb/s).  I have regularly had ltib download toolchains at good
>>>>>> download rates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most likely cause is related to your network infrastructure
>>>>>> (firewalls etc).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ISP for bitshrine is globat.com, most of the time they're very
>>>> good.
>>>>>>  However if you can see anything incorrect, it might be worth
>>>> contacting
>>>>>> them and letting them know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW: can you try from another physical location.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aaron Wegner wrote:
>>>>>>> Guys, I have encountered something similar as well.  I took a guess
>>>> that
>>>>>>> it might be ipv6 related, so I disabled that, but really no
>>>> significant
>>>>>>> improvement.  I guessed that because about 2 months ago I tried
>>>>>>> debugging
>>>>>>> the same issue and it seemed like some of the Windows machines here
>>>> had
>>>>>>> more luck with the download rates than my Linux machine was having.
>>>> Now
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can't reproduce that behavior.  Today I've tried Windows, Debian
>>>> Linux,
>>>>>>> and Fedora Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know how the handshakes work, but it seems like periodically
>>>> the
>>>>>>> transfer rate is renegotiated, and always to a very low rate.  Now
>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> achieving 5 KB/sec from bitshrine.org.  Other sites work better for
>>>> me,
>>>>>>> about 300 KB/sec from kernel.org.  I have resorted to downloading my
>>>>>>> .tar.gz files from other sites on the Internet, but the biggest
>>>> problem
>>>>>>> for me is the toolchain, which I would like to get from
>>>> bitshrine.org,
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> I don't really know where else to look for the exact same files.
>>>> 100 MB
>>>>>>> at 5 KB/sec means I'll have it next week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it possible that bitshrine.org does not allow renegotiation of
>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>> rate often enough?  I don't know enough about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aaron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally the bandwidth is pretty good from that ISP, so it's worth
>>>>>>>> checking your network.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Glad you found the problem.  Ideally LTIB could be improved to look
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> see if wget times out and report that, rather than stumbling on and
>>>>>>>> failing the md5sum check.  At least there is a check though so it
>>>>>>>> prevents untaring *rap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards, Stuart
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Stuart,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually, I finally discovered the problem. The download wasn't
>>>>>>>>> finishing
>>>>>>>>> due either to my network or to the server. The download transfer
>>>> rates
>>>>>>>>> were all over the place but at their worst were 1 KB/sec and the
>>>>>>>>> connection
>>>>>>>>> was timing out. I guess the wgets program doesn't catch or send an
>>>>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>>>>> signal on connection termination but the script, thinking the file
>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> downloaded, probably did an MD5 checksum on a partially downloaded
>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>> I edited the wgets options to remove the non-verbose mode and
>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>> the timeout of only 12 seconds. This did better but for some
>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> connections still timed out. There is something wrong with our
>>>> network
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> I am having IT look into. After several tries I was finally able
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> LTIB to download all the necessary RPMs and finish the compile.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the help.
>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Stuart Hughes [mailto:address@hidden
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:53 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Daniel Brown
>>>>>>>>> Cc: address@hidden; address@hidden
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ltib] Problem using LTIB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is just for installation so you can run /mnt/ltib/install.
>>>> Make
>>>>>>>>> when you run the installer you are in some area with local disk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, in the output I see the warning:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Ideally the rpm database should not be located in an NFS
>>>> mounted
>>>>>>>>>>     filesystem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     On some systems this may cause cause problems due to
>>>> filesystem
>>>>>>>>> locking
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can avoid running on an NFS area, you'll have less problems
>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> your IT department can setup all sorts of restrictions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Finally the message:
>>>>>>>>>>     ERROR: md5sum mismatch, re-naming
>>>>>>>>>>     /opt/ltib/pkgs/tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> /opt/ltib/pkgs/tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm.bad,
>>>>>>>>>>     please re-try
>>>>>>>>> This shows there was some kind of download error.  Can you take a
>>>> look
>>>>>>>>> at the .bad file (run file and see what it is, check the size).
>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> idea is to see if the http server returned an error (which will be
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the .bad file).  One possibility is that you need to set up a web
>>>>>>>>> proxy
>>>>>>>>> (does your browser use one?).  The other possibility is that the
>>>>>>>>> download aborted for lack of disk space or some other reason (IT
>>>> quota
>>>>>>>>> policy etc?).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards, Stuart
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do have the following in my list of mounted devices:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /home/dbrown/Freescale/MPC8313E_RDB_K26_20081226-LTIB.iso on
>>>>>>>>>> /mnt/ltib
>>>>>>>>>> type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop0)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was for the Freescale LTIB distribution that I downloaded
>>>>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible that this is the problem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Peter Barada [mailto:address@hidden
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2010 11:07 AM
>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Daniel Brown
>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* Jorge A. Castro; address@hidden
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Ltib] Problem using LTIB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 10:55 -0700, Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am using Redhat Enterprise Workstation. Is this dist okay?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My network connection is fine on this machine. I have checked.
>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> can I check connection to the webite for
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> getting the tc-fsl package?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in the get_remote() function in bin/Ltibutils.pm, if you add a
>>>> "set
>>>>>>>>>> -x"
>>>>>>>>>> to the shell commands that call wget, thereby seingo the wget
>>>> command
>>>>>>>>>> used to fetch the file from the GPP(note the bolded "set -x" in
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> following):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sub get_remote
>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>     my($dest, $pxys, $wget_opts, $pxmode, $url) = @_;
>>>>>>>>>>     return system_nb(<<TXT) == 0;
>>>>>>>>>> *set -x*
>>>>>>>>>> cd $dest
>>>>>>>>>> $pxys wget $wget_opts --proxy=$pxmode $url 2>&1
>>>>>>>>>> cd - >/dev/null
>>>>>>>>>> TXT
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >From what you've sent, it looks like you wee able to downloaded
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> file, its a mismatch of the md5sum that's causing the renaming.
>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> guessing that you have an LTIB .iso image - are the line endings
>>>>>>>>>> incorrect (i.e. finding DOS line endings (CRLF) instead of Unix
>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>> endings (LF only))?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If a mismatch is found, LTIB moves the filename (by appending
>>>> ".bad"
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> it), so the next run of LTIB should pull it down again, and
>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> will match.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     *From:address@hidden
>>>>>>>>>>     [mailto:address@hidden *On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>     Of *Jorge A. Castro
>>>>>>>>>>     *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2010 9:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>>     *To:* address@hidden
>>>>>>>>>>     *Subject:* Re: [Ltib] Problem using LTIB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     It seems like LTIB it's not getting
>>>>>>>>>>     tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm, because it shows
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Can't get: tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm at
>>>> ./ltib
>>>>>>>>>>     line 2628.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     You may check your connection  or the availability of the
>>>>>>>>>> package.
>>>>>>>>>>     Bytheway, what are you using in you host machine? (what
>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>>>>>>>     flavor distribution?)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Jorge Castro
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     On 08/20/2010 10:16 AM, Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     I downloaded and having tried using ltib to build a
>>>> configuration
>>>>>>>>>>     for the LPC3250 target.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     I get the following transcript after the gui exits. Can
>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>> help?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     -------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     [bash-3.2:dbrown:ltib]$ ./ltib
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Installing host support packages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     This only needs to be done once per host, but may take up to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     an hour to complete ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     If an error occurs, a log file with the full output may be
>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> in:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     /home/dbrown/ltib/host_config.log
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     *** End of configuration.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     *** Check the top-level Makefile for additional configuration
>>>>>>>>>> options.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + '[' -n '' ']'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + '[' '!' -f config/platform/ea3250/.config -a -f
>>>>>>>>>>     config/platform/ea3250/defconfig ']'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + cp config/platform/ea3250/defconfig
>>>>>>>>>> config/platform/ea3250/.config
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + '[' -f /home/dbrown/ltib/config/.config ']'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + '[' -n '' ']'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + cd config/platform/ea3250
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + mconf main.lkc .config
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     *** End of configuration.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     *** Check the top-level Makefile for additional configuration
>>>>>>>>>> options.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     + cp .config defconfig.dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Ideally the rpm database should not be located in an NFS
>>>> mounted
>>>>>>>>>>     filesystem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     On some systems this may cause cause problems due to
>>>> filesystem
>>>>>>>>>> locking
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     and this application.  If you have this problem, you'll see
>>>> error
>>>>>>>>>>     messages like: "error: cannot get exclusive lock on
>>>>>>>>>> ..../Packages"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Press <enter to continue>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Installing: tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Testing network connectivity for gpp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     OK GPP: is available
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Try tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm from the GPP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     ERROR: md5sum mismatch, re-naming
>>>>>>>>>>     /opt/ltib/pkgs/tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> /opt/ltib/pkgs/tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm.bad,
>>>>>>>>>>     please re-try
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Can't get: tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm at
>>>> ./ltib
>>>>>>>>>>     line 2628.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Died at ./ltib line 2628.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     traceback:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      main::check_toolchain_setup:2628
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       main::pre_build_checks:1486
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>        main:564
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Started: Fri Aug 20 07:20:07 2010
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Ended:   Fri Aug 20 07:43:11 2010
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Elapsed: 1384 seconds
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     VERSION          : 10.1.1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     CVS_VERSION      : $Revision: 1.70 $ (Savannah)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     PLATFORM         : ea3250
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     GNUTARCH         : arm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     TOOLCHAIN        :
>>>> tc-fsl-x86lnx-armeabi-nptl-4.1.2-3.i386.rpm
>>>>>>>>>>     TOOLCHAIN_CFLAGS : -O2 -fsigned-char -mfloat-abi=softfp
>>>> -mfpu=vfp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Build Failed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Exiting on error or interrupt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     [bash-3.2:dbrown:ltib]$
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Ltib mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Jorge A. Castro
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Canam-Technology, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Ltib mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ltib mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ltib mailing list
>>>>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>>>>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ltib mailing list
>>>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>>>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> LTIB home page: http://ltib.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Ltib mailing list
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>>>>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ltib
>>>
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>>
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