Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Status of GIF matters

[Miles Lott]

Seek3r replied to Brad directly on this.  Yes, as RMS stated, we
are still a GNU project.  Currently, the plan is to study the
result of this effort and respond accordingly.  In other words,
we gladly accept their offer and await the results.

"Patrick J. Walsh" wrote:
> 
> > The FSF will happily help find someone to do the editing work on all the
> > PNGs to make them uniform.  If the PNGs cannot be made uniform, then we
> > would certainly be willing to commission an artist to reinvent them from
> > scratch in a way that maximizes compatibility and aesthetics.
> 
>         AFAIK no one has replied to this e-mail.  Certainly not publicly.  It
> seems to me that the above offer is very fair and in fact generous.  Does
> the leadership intend to take the FSF up on this offer?  Is phpGroupWare
> going to remain a GNU project?  Has there been any final resolution to this?
> 
> ..Patrick (mr_e)
> 
> --On Monday, January 21, 2002
> --"Bradley M. Kuhn" <address@hidden> wrote:
> 
> > I have spoken a bit with RMS on the phone about the GIF issue.  I have
> > also taken a look at Dan's examples at
> > http://www.phpgroupware.org/using_png.jpg.  I am starting to get a much
> > clearer picture of what the problem is.
> >
> > I will first apologize again that there was a miscommunication between Dan
> > and me back in June that led us here.  I, in fact, thought the GIFs had
> > been removed long ago from the canonical distribution, and was surprised
> > when I heard that they weren't.
> >
> > From the point of view of the FSF and the GNU project, we want to find a
> > way to resolve this matter.  Of course, our position on "no GIFs for GNU"
> > is firm, even for the LZW-free versions.  We want to push the industry to
> > abandon the format entirely, lest people not begin to ignore whether or
> > not their GIFs are LZW'ed.  The effort to abandon GIF dates back to the
> > early 1990s, and we want to continue to stand strong on this issue.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I am well aware that you want the interface to be aesthetically
> > pleasing, and don't want to screw users of some proprietary software
> > browsers if you can help it.  To that end, the FSF would like to make its
> > resources available to find any way possible to create PNGs that look good
> > in a maximum number of browsers.
> >
> > I have talked with a graphics hacker to gain a better understanding of the
> > problem.  (I have never been much into graphics, so I needed some
> > education first).  As I understand it, the problem stems from the fact
> > that PNGs have a *more* flexible alpha-channel than GIFs.  PNG's alpha
> > channel implementation is not supported properly by some proprietary
> > software browsers, but all modern versions of Free Software browsers do
> > support it.
> >
> > Further (as I understand it, correct me if I am mistaken), some of the
> > phpGroupWare PNGs do different things in some proprietary software
> > browsers, because the PNGs were generated in different ways. Thus,
> > http://www.phpgroupware.org/using_png.jpg shows icons with
> > different-colored backgrounds, based on conversions decisions made by the
> > person generating the PNGs.
> >
> > A partial solution is to standardize the PNGs, so that their backgrounds
> > in broken proprietary software browsers is always the same.  This isn't
> > aesthetically perfect, since the chosen theme color might differ from the
> > default background.  However, it would at least make the icons look
> > uniform.
> >
> > The FSF will happily help find someone to do the editing work on all the
> > PNGs to make them uniform.  If the PNGs cannot be made uniform, then we
> > would certainly be willing to commission an artist to reinvent them from
> > scratch in a way that maximizes compatibility and aesthetics.
> >
> >
> > I hope that I have understood the problem well enough, and that my
> > proposal makes sense.  If it doesn't, please don't hesitate to educate
> > me.  Meanwhile, if this doesn't solve the problem well enough, I would
> > love to investigate other creative solutions.
> >
> > I very much want to do whatever I can to resolve this issue.  As I said in
> > my last message, phpGroupWare is very important to the GNU project, to
> > DotGNU, and to the FSF itself (as we plan to begin using it internally
> > soon).
> >
> >
> > I would love to hear suggestions on how we can resolve this problem.  I
> > can make myself available for a phone conversation, too, if any of you
> > would like to chat about this matter.
> >
> > I look forward to continuing the discussion.
> >
> > --
> > Bradley M. Kuhn, Vice President
> > Free Software Foundation     |  Phone: +1-617-542-5942
> > 59 Temple Place, Suite 330   |  Fax:   +1-617-542-2652
> > Boston, MA 02111-1307  USA   |  Web:   http://www.gnu.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >    -- bkuhn
> 
> _____________________________
> Patrick J. Walsh
> President & CEO
> Dyna-Q Corporation
> 214 Main Street Suite 261
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> voice: (877) 553-9627
> fax: (866) 239-6060
> 
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-- 

Miles Lott - phpGroupWare
http://www.phpgroupware.org