Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] [Fwd: Re: [users-groupware] Kroupware]

[Jason Wies]

address@hidden, address@hidden

I think KDE has great applications for calendar, email, addressbook, todo, etc. 
 I've not developed for KDE, but it seems that the apps have a very 
sophisticated communication system between them.  The thing that is missing, 
then, is the server solution to handle the logic of appointments and emails and 
todos and access control and the rest, to feed to the applications.  Guess 
what?  That server is phpGroupWare.

It's become apparent since the work on XML-RPC and SOAP support in phpGroupWare 
was started that we are able to occupy the dual role of groupware application 
and groupware server, and from Dan's previous postings I don't think there's 
any dispute about that.  With a easy to use interface for Evolution, KDE, 
OpenOffice, and other applications, phpGroupWare could fill a gap that the Free 
Software community needs.

So I don't think we should write Kroupware off as Krapware.  phpGroupWare has a 
solid set of groupware logic that it has taken years to develop, and it would 
be counter to the ideals of the Free Software community to have Kroupware 
reimplement that logic, not to mention a major strain on the resources of the 
Kroupware programmers.  Kroupware, even in just their first Architecture Paper, 
has considered issues we have not yet dealt with and could benefit from greatly.

To the Kroupware developers: With a little work, phpGroupWare will be able to 
handle the server side.  XML-RPC and SOAP support is working, but needs to be 
extended to include more parts of the API, parts that already exist and work 
well.  I think if we work together on this we can finally bridge the gap 
between the client side and server side and advance the Free Software community 
that much further.

phpGroupWare (http://www.phpgroupware.org/) developers hang out in 
irc.freenode.net/#phpgroupware, and of course address@hidden  Drop by or send a 
note, we are actively developing now.

Sincerely,
Jason Wies aka Zone

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 10:01:34PM -0700, Dan Kuykendall wrote:
> For any of you that have heard about the kroupware project that has 
> gotten some press recently, here are my comments on it that I sent to 
> the Open Office GroupWare project. I spent a while reading the spec and 
> trying to re-think the solution (which we had considered ages ago) to 
> see how useful it would be. I basicly have come to the same 
> conclusion... that it would suck. So as far as I can see kroupware is 
> krapware
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [users-groupware] Kroupware
> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:44:41 -0700
> From: Dan Kuykendall <address@hidden>
> Reply-To: address@hidden
> To: address@hidden
> 
> 
> Tony Earnshaw wrote:
> 
>  > The trouble is, indeed, the "short timescale of the project," ask the
>  > Mozilla people in this group like Arentjan Banck or Exchange people like
>  > Vincent de Lauw how much detail that sort of project needs. The final
>  > Kroupware system has all the signs of having been made up of odd bits
>  > and pieces thrown together. Two of my specialities are - apart from
>  > anything else - mail: smtp, pop and imap, together with LDAP, and I just
>  > couldn't believe the choice of specs that I was reading on the Kroupware
>  > site.
> 
> I agree with this. I couldnt believe what they were trying to call a
> replacement to Exchange/Outlook. I have spent two and half years
> starting the phpGroupWare project and helping it develop into a serious
> solution. Building a well integrated groupware solution is not an easy
> task and the spec I have seen on the kroupware website fo nothing more
> than to create server storage for PIM data. That does not create a
> groupware solution. Their free/busy time solution is a train-wreck of a
> solution which is going to get out of sync on a regular basis.
> 
> This also does nothing to solve one of the most common requirements a
> groupware solution must provide to executives. That is the ability to
> give their secretary rights over their calendar to accept/decline
> meeting request and to view the actual details of their calendar. Execs
> often have their secretaries manage their entire calendar and just call
> them to find out what their days meetings will be. The kroupware
> solution would only give the secretaries the ability to see free/busy
> time, but no details of what their boss is actually scheduled to be doing.
> 
> The same goes for todo lists and in some cases even for an email inbox.
> This requires an integrated solution, not a quick hack of slapping
> together disparet server pieces together and making calendars work.
> 
> The use of IMAP as the data store is a serious mistake. IMAP is designed
> to only store personal email messages. If userA needs to give userB
> access to any their data, and so much of this is controlled in the
> client, then userA ends up having to give userB his password, and at
> that point has no way to limit what userB can do with his data. userA
> could not limit userB to read only access because IMAP servers dont
> really support that.
> 
> As far as I can see kroupware is nothing more than server storage of PIM
> data + a flaky system for a shared free/busy time listings. It is not
> groupware as much as they want to call it such.
> 
> Dan Kuykendall
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: address@hidden
> For additional commands, e-mail: address@hidden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phpgroupware-developers mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/phpgroupware-developers