RE: [Phpgroupware-developers] Re: Standard source code header and php Documentor

[Christian Böttger]

G'day!

> probiz receive more than 300.000 EUR for developing a solution with
> phpgw. 

Wrong number. We are receiving money, yes. But we have to put and will put
the same amount of money in it as well, as it is a 50% funding. 

> We (Ralf,Lars and I) meet them on the CEBIT in 
> Hannover Germany.

Correct.

> They don't want communicate with the community. 

That's plain wrong, otherwise noone would write anything here from our
company. 

> They have a business plan for what they receive money. 

What's wrong about it?

> They told us that they are make the first project with OS developers. 

Well, it's not exactly the first project, it's the second. And in any case,
some of the developers involved have individually worked on open source
projects before.

> I know the plan from them and i say,

Do you? How long was that meeting? 30 minutes. I guess there are some
misunderstandings still.

> that what they do it's not a community project. They want 
> that the "OSS developers" agree with their "commercial" product. 

Not correct. That is your interpretation, not our intention. Our intention
is to give as much work back into the phpGW project as possible. It's of
course up to the phpGW project whether they accept the work or not.

> 
> What they told us on the CEBIT:
> We can be happy, that a company like probusiness make a commercial
> solution and professional support for phpgw. 

Commercial companies must produce money to exist, mustn't they?
 
> I have no NDA with probiz and when anybody want know more about, what
> they want do, please ask. I hope we can declare it.

Well, nobody will stop you from telling what you want. But we may answer to
this as well if we feel that's you misunderstood something.

> We ask them, to spend some money for development to the 
> developers, but they don't want. When I want i found a way. 

Oh well. AFAIK someone (I don't know whether is was you, honestly) asked
just to pass on most of the money. This is not possible. But, e.g. we had
open job positions. People could have applied. And: in the case parts of our
work go into the phpGW community: then "money" in form of work has found
it's way into the project; which it wouldn't otherwise. But you may accept
or not that we simply can't just take orders.

Be honest: would you donate your business or private money to a group of
people approaching you in this tone? 

> 
> Greetings to probiz. Follow OSS rules and not YOUR COMMERCIAL 
> INTEREST 

Please ask Richard Stallmann or anyone else from FSF or FSF Europe about OSS
and business. From all their statements, that's not a contradiction at all.
Commercial companies *must* follow commercial interests, otherwise they will
cease to exist. OSS (the FSF prefers "Free Software") is about the
accessability of source code and the freedom of the *user* of the software
to do what they want with the source. It' not about not making money, and
it's not anti-business.

But well, if this opionion uttered by Reiner is the opinion of the majority
of the contributors and the core team, and all agree that they don't want
any code or contribution from our company at all and will not have a look at
further (code or other) contributions, well then just say it and we will be
off. Mind you that the GPL would not stop anyone from forking of a new
project under a different name.

We are well prepared and much in favour of assigning any phpGW related code
from us to the FSF or FSF Europe, whichever may be the correct address. That
my count as "following OSS rules". 

> 
> Am Sam, 2003-06-28 um 02.42 schrieb Dave Hall:
> > address@hidden wrote:
> > 
> 
> > Yes, this is part of the problem with Kai's (and probiz's) attitude
> > towards the project.  They decide something then try to 
> impose it on the
> > project.  

No. It's meant as a proposal. And Kai added an example, so that people can
have a better basis to decide. He's offering work voluntarily (in this case
not as part as his job), and if you don't want it, just leave it.

>> All subscribers to this list should be aware, the project
> > works on a collabrative model.

Well, whatever it might look like to some people: these things are meant as
*proposals* and offers to work on it. If it's not appreciated, we can well
stop offering work.

> > This may be the case, but this must be a decision of the 
> project, not a
> > patch contributor.

It was definitely *not* meant as a decision, but just as an example of what
it would look like. He offered to do it in his spare time, AFAIK. If you
like it, accept it. If not, reject it. But you cannot, as it is an
collaborative approach, force him to it in a different way, if he doesn't
want to. If someone offers work voluntarily, either accept or reject it, but
don't order him to do it in another way.

Regards

Christian Böttger

-- 
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