Re: RE: RE: [Phpgroupware-developers] Re: Standard source code header and php Documentor

[Dave Hall]

Christian Böttger <address@hidden> wrote:

<snip />

> 
> 
> > Nothing, I wish I could do the same.  I think some 
> > consultation with the
> > community could have helped you improve that plan :)
> 
> Might be or not. Time and other factors did not permit it, 
> unfortunately.

np ... things are always easier in hindsight

> 
> > Sorry, I think your inexperience is showing here.
> 
> 
> That is your opinion. I beg to differ. The other side of the coin 
> is, that
> whatever we do and may do in the future, I feel that we always 
> will be
> attacked first. 

I think it may take sometime for things to change.  At the same time I
think we might be able to find some common ground.

> I've no problem with things not being accepted. 
> But I do
> have a problem with being bashed all the time.
> 

This may surprise you, but I rarely bash people.  Some people do really
annoy me, and they usually get a less favourable response.  If you look
through the mail list archives, bug tracker and irc logs I am generally
a nice guy - who sometimes has a bad day :)

> > Ok, I would like to see some demostration of this.  So far 
> > you have been working on this for quite a few months - so far we 
> have seen
> a single
> > class documented in someones "spare time".
> 
> For socumentation, yes. There have been postings including the 
> databasedocumentation and the API (UML) documentation. And this 
> has not been done in
> spare time.

I understand this.  I think some of this may be useful, but also in
phpgw the classes are more important than the db model they sit on top
of, as it is the classes which are used to access the data, not via the
db directly.

> 
> Other code will follow, as soon as we are able to finish off some 
> of those
> nasty commercial projects we have to do in order to make a living.

Looking forward to it, but I would suggest some discuss with us may
reduce development time, and increase the likelyhood of the code being
rolled into phpgw.

> 
> 
> > > Commercial companies must produce money to exist, mustn't they?
> > 
> > I think Karl Marx had a solution for that ;)  Ok no more Marx :)
> 
> Did it work out somewhere?

As I said no more Marx, I could spend hours on this point :)

<snip />

> > 
> > Ok, what is the process for applying for existing developers who do
> > reside in the local government region where you are based?  Is
> > telecommuting a possibility?  I will be able to attend an 
> interview in
> > Hamburg is early August.
> 
> Telecommuting might be an option, but occasional face-to-face 
> meeting are
> definitely a must, at least in this thing. But we might have other 
> things in
> the future which can be done by telecommuniting without problem. 
> So yes:
> perhaps you can come down from Hamburg to Hannover some time (yes, 
> we will
> pay for the train).

Ok, we can discuss this off list, I thought you were based in Hamburg, I
do have some spare time while in Germany, but not a lot, but I am sure
we can work something out - btw my german is almost non existent, but I
am trying to learn :)


> 
> > > Be honest: would you donate your business or private money to 
> a 
> > > group of
> > > people approaching you in this tone? 
> > 
> > I think it is a 2 way street.  Your initial approach to the 
> > project was pretty poor imho.
> 
> We will never find an agreement on that, I guess. So, what do we 
> make of it?
> Live with it or keep picking on it?

Lets try to move forward.

> 
> 
> > I agree with some of what Reiner has said.  What I would 
> > suggest is for
> > you to make a time with the active developers to discuss this 
> > matter, on
> > irc, phone conference or via an off list email discussion.  As I 
> have
> No IRC possible over here, still. 

I understand that, I find IRC is good for resolving issues and throwing
around ideas.  If you can't use IRC I won't hold that against you, even
though I may disagree with your reasoning.

> Phone conference might be a good 
> idea, it
> might be just a bit diffcult, taking into account the different 
> time zones.

I am sure we can work out a mutually compatiable time.  I am generally
available from 2300-1300 (UTC+2).  Many of our active contributors are
in Europe with a few night owls in the US.  Let me know off list if you
would like to set this up, I am happy to assist in making the arrangements.

> E-Mail: well, give us an address for it; but written 
> communications might
> just lead to further misunderstandings.

I think some type of real time discussion is best to resolve this ...
instead of sending emails ... which incurr a lag time ... and take
longer to clarify.

> 
> > stated in the past I have some concerns about your intentions 
> with the
> > project, and you approach to the project thus far.  I think 
> > if you have
> > any interest in resolving these issues you really need to try to 
> start> over with the project.
> 
> Which would mean?

Think some type of discuss with some of the active contributors would
help resolve the issues and start fresh.  Please keep in mind that API
commit rights (or any cvs access) can not be the aim of this discussion,
it would be more about trying to build a better working relationship.

> 
> > vibrant.  At the
> > same time I am yet to see a phpGW for survive.
> 
> Yes, why not?

The phpgroupware brand is big, and we have a large community.  try
googling for "groupware" - see what you find.

Cheers

Dave

dave.hall.vcf
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