Re: [Fsfe-uk] [Proposal] Mailing lists

[Chris Croughton]

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 10:33:19AM +0100, Alex Hudson wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 10:03, Chris Croughton wrote:
> > about free software.  If I were coming to the list as a "list for
> > talking about free software matters" and were confronted by loads of
> > messages about how to elect a committee and how to distribute funds
> > donated to an organisation then I'd likely leave again.
> 
> I disagree fairly strongly with this; 

You disagree with me about whether /I/ would leave?  Sorry, you are not
competent to judge what I would do.

As it happens, I came to this list via the AFFS site and so expected a
lot of organisational stuff.  If however I had believed that this list
is supposed to be for "free software" in general then /I/ would have
been put off by the 'political' aspects (in terms of internal AFFS
politics, I expect it to be about the Real World politics of FS,
software patents etc.).

> especially the distribution of
> funds. I don't see what could be more relevant to free software matters
> in the UK. AFFS certainly cannot operate in a vacuum; distribution of
> UKFSN donation is something we could dream up some faux academic board
> process for but if it doesn't work for people who actually run projects
> then it's worse than useless; it's actually damaging.

What you do with funds donated to your organisation is a matter for that
organisation, and for donors if they object to what you do (they may not
want to donate for holidays in the Bahamas, for instance).

Having decided (as an organisation) that you are going to use it to fund
free software development, it /then/ makes sense to consult about what
information you need to choose projects.  But it is still totally up to
the organisation members what eventually gets selected.

> I've never seen fsfe-uk as a forum for solely abstract discussion about
> what might be good or bad for free software. AFFS is not an end in
> itself; it's just a tool. By hiving AFFS off into it's own ghetto we
> risk it becoming an end rather than a tool. 

A tool of whom?  It's not a matter of a 'ghetto', especially if the
affs-discuss list is open to non-members so they can join that (if
they want to), it's a matter of keeping different things in different
places.  If I am not eligible to elect the AFFS committee, why should I
even see the bickering about it?

Do you use one big flat directory or have subdirectories for specific
things?

> Let there be no doubt; if there is an affs-discuss list then this list
> will mostly die sooner or later.

Which list, the AFFS one or FSFE_UK?

> I don't see that changing the name of
> the list will solve any of the problems people find with this list.

Of course it won't, that's not what is proposed.  A mixed list will
eventually alienate one group or the other, which is the point.

> In fact, if there is already a problem with too much 'organisational'
> mail then it's actually going to get worse on an affs-specific list. 

It will get 'worse' for those who are interested in that side (but I
expect them to regard it as 'better', since they -- unlike me -- are
actually interested).  But I, as a non-member, don't have to take that
list if I just want to discuss free software and not the internals of a
particular organisation, so /this/ list will get 'better'.

Alternatively, as I suggested, make sure that all of the AFFS-specific
messages are clearly marked as such using something like [AFFS] at the
start of the Subject: line (most mailers 'thread' by subject, at least).

Chris C