Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Skeleton GNU/Linux

[Zlatan Todoric]

(sorry for another off-topic post)


On 11/11/2016 12:09 AM, Jean Louis wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:49:35PM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> > On 11/10/2016 11:26 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 05:09:52PM -0500, Matt Lee wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Jean Louis <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am glad for that. Personally, I am avoiding it due to larger size,
> > > > > and compiling taking time. I am using now Dillo, Xombrero, uzbl and
> > > > > surf.
> > > > >
> > > > > uzbl is in particular very usable.
> > > > I'm not going to ask our users to use one of those.
> > > > uzbl doesn't have an address bar to enter a URL.
> > > >
> > > > We'll ship Chromium with some fixes to make it compliant, or possibly
> > > > Firefox with fixes.
> > > But please uzbl has address bar to enter the URL. It is just not up,
> > > it is down. I am entering URLs in uzbl address bar all the times. And
> > > what is really nice with uzbl, you can make your own address bar in
> > > any way you like, enter it, and pipe it to the browser (users would
> > > not know it if you wish so).
> > Cool, just recently Internet Explorer stopped being the most used browser
> > (replaced by Google Chrome) and you're suggesting uzbl. User-friendly is not
> > your stronger side? I mean, yea, lets take uzbl, explain to users that bar
> > is down and that, they can make their own address bar in any way they like
> > and pipe it to browser. I see hundreds of millions moving to uzbl as we
> > speak.
> >
> > I am really not sure are you just being sarcastic at this moment as I can't
> > get this seriously.
> I have reviewed your website with uzbl browser. http://www.uzbl.org -
> it is excellent browser, serving all my needs. Very customizable and
> powerful. You have not obviously tried it and could not understand it.

I used uzbl as well as surf (heck not long time ago my environment was 
xmonad) but...

> I am user, so it is very user friendly to me. The sources, with the
> build are just 12 MB, that is also very user friendly, considering,
> that Internet connection in Africa is not as good as yours. Even
> compiling of Chrome or IceCat, is simply going to fail, if I am not
> running on solar powered battery, as there are often power outages
> here.

No, you're a developer and user. I am developer and user. My friend is 
user and mechanic. He and *HUGE* majority don't care about is it 12MB or 
120MB, the size doesn't mean anything to them in this age. Africa - we 
need to fix connection and electrical supply and not put UX backwards. 
None of average users will compile (unless you ask them to do it or they 
find it curios - which has a chance he will be a developer).

> Small browser with few configuration files and perfectly customizable,
> with high privacy levels, seem to be very user friendly.

Most of people don't understand even what privacy means (we in Purism 
struggle so much to justify that) - so not really something majority 
would consider user-friendly.

> Yes, we shall teach users how to use computing tools, software and how
> to become programmers. I am not somebody who likes leaving users in a
> stage of not knowing what they can do with a computer and software.

No, we should not. My friend mechanic is not forcing me to know how car 
works or how to fix it in order just to drive it. I don't want to be a 
mechanic. And he can be pissed of about it, but it will still not change 
my will. Do you know how to fix car and how it works - should someone 
teach you if you want just to drive or take a cab? What about planes? Do 
you know all about them? And TV? And radio? And washing machine?

> With 17 years I have been giving courses in computer programming
> languages such as Logo and BASIC, not far from your birth place, and
> people from that computer club have advanced in life as programmers.

Cool, and keep going on, just don't force people to learn it.

> Finally, average Tanzanian, working here in my company, learns Emacs
> tutorial within 60 minutes, and uzbl within 5 minutes. Even if those
> people don't have much access to computer otherwise.

And average person already uses Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Safari and maybe it 
will surprise you - they hardly even think about it, it just works for them.

> Tomorrow, I will test uzbl on a new person, and I will see how fast
> that person can learn to use it, and will let you know.

I wanted now to do the same test with new person but only instead of 
uzbl, I wanted to teach them Firefox. I was out of luck - they already 
knew it :-/

Cheers.