Re: NSToolbar (was Re: Portability/Compatability between GNUstep<---> Cocoa...)

[Alex Perez]

On Jan 13, 2004, at 6:21 PM, Jason Clouse wrote:

> On 2004-01-13 07:55:00 -0500 Jeff Teunissen <deek@d2dc.net> wrote:
> > NSToolBar isn't something you can "just not use"; it changes the stuff
> > that's already there,
>
> Stick it in the PortabilityKit.  Case closed.

I agree completely. The problems arise because some people believe that 
it should be a part of GNUstep *PROPER*. I personally don't see why 
that's strictly necessary. The "reasons" I've seen so far haven't been 
very good ones, and are neither here nor there. I'd like it to be, but 
I personally don't care and would rather settle the issue instead of 
debating it into the ground.

> > and even if you disregard the changes to NSWindow's
> > APIs it's pretty disgusting from a *step-ish point of view.
>
> Fine.  But I've been heavily promoting GNUstep far and wide.  People 
> are interested but are primarily interested in the ability to write 
> software for both OS X and other platforms.  These are Apple 
> programmers who like to use the toolbar, sheets, and drawers.  When 
> something is poorly designed, they should have better options (ie. we 
> should come up with better designs and publish them separately as an 
> OS X and GNUstep framework).  But they should also have the ability to 
> take their already existing code and build it with GNUstep, whether 
> it's disgusting or not.

This is what PortabilityKit is for. The problem with most Mac 
programmers is that they don't buy into the spirit of sharing that is 
embodied in (L)GPL communities. Their personal unwillingness to 
contribute classes, for instance, makes them immediately discount 
anything that doesn't do exactly what they need it to. This is where a 
lot of the elitism and scoffing comes from when trying to sell people 
on GNUstep. I've even run into it on PortabilityKit. Asses who say 
"hey, who says I want to run my app on other UNIX platforms" don't make 
me want to help them. (And for the record,  yes, I've ACTUALLY had 
several people say that to me, in those exact words)

NSToolbar should be in PortabilityKit because PK is value-neutral by 
design and GNUstep is not. GNUstep should not have to be value-neutral, 
either. That's the bottom line. I think there's enough dissention to 
warrant my position, but I'm sure others will disagree.


--
Alex Perez
aperez@student.santarosa.edu
"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat 
it."
--Thomas Jefferson