Re: GNUstep on 10.7

[Nat!]

Am 08.10.2011 um 13:44 schrieb David Chisnall:

> On 8 Oct 2011, at 12:40, Nat! wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Am 07.10.2011 um 23:24 schrieb Gregory Casamento:
>>> 
>>> What I was particularly wondering about is why try to get GNUstep to
>>> work on Mac OS X since the Mac has it's own implementation of GNUstep
>>> it's called "Cocoa."
>> 
>> Which is closed-source and non-free. If you don't put a value on these
>> two properties, then yes I can see, why you are wondering.
> 
> But no more non-Free than most of the rest of OS X.

Well actually the major parts below GNUstep of OS X are open-sourced [1] and 
according to the FSF "free software licenses."[2] You could put GNUstep on top 
of Darwin and enjoy a free system right to the terminal-application/daemon 
level. 

So your argument is invalid ;)

 
>  If you're targeting OS X, then you've already decided that using non-Free 
> software is acceptable.  
> It therefore makes sense to use the implementation of the frameworks that is 
> better tested and supported on this platform.

Given a closed source framework vs. an open source framework, I think I would 
prefer the open source one, assuming its of about equal quality for many tasks. 
Wouldn't you and is it not ? 

> 
> If you want to run your code on other platforms, then it makes more sense to 
> use GNUstep.  If you care about software freedom, then you should write your 
> code on GNUstep and then port it to Cocoa, because that will ensure that you 
> don't use any of the APIs that aren't supported by the Free Software 
> implementation.  

The argument can also be made, that if you write in Cocoa, you my want to check 
against the FSF implementation periodically to make sure that you are staying 
"free".

But that's technicalities, where this is indeed about politics. (What I think 
discuss is also for).

> 
>> But I find it just a little bizarre to read this on a FSF-mailing list 
>> from the maintainer of said FSF-project. I thought freedom is the core
>> value of the Free Software Foundation. 
> 
> So what would you want the reply to be?  The answer to the question of how to 
> run GNUstep on OS X should be 'uninstall OS X, install HURD, and use GNUstep 
> there'?  

Ask RMS ? Maybe he can shine some light on the value of "free" software on 
proprietary platforms as well. I'd guess, his opinion is not yours.

I think the answer would and should be, that the GNUstep project is unwilling 
to support the OS/X platform and that it focuses on free software platforms 
(and windows...). 

Certainly a FSF-project recommending proprietary alternatives and basically 
questioning people about the merit of using it's "free" framework, can't be the 
right response.

[1] http://opensource.apple.com/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FSF_approved_software_licenses
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Ich selbst habe mich persönlich stets an den 
sittlichen Gepflogenheiten des Philisters beteiligt;
nicht, weil ich ihnen Wert beigemessen hätte, sondern
weil ich - vorwärts, immer mal wieder! - keinen Anlaß
traf, mich von ihnen zu trennen. -- H. Mann