RE: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el

[Drew Adams]

    > Sounds like a good argument for keeping ange-ftp as the Emacs
    > default, until tramp supports Windows (and other platforms,
    > if appropriate) seamlessly.

    But Tramp does work on Windows, at least for me, with plink as the SSH
    client.  Unless others say that plink, too, has problems, which aren't
    seen on Posix platforms, I don't see why we should advise Windows
    users to use a different setup.

"Seamlessly" is the operative word here. If you're right about how easy it
is, then perhaps all that's needed is a clear recipe of instructions. If
Michael A. and I are right about how hard it can be, then maybe more work
needs to be done.

    (Also note that ange-ftp is now Tramp's back end, and so fetching by
    FTP should work as well as it did in previous versions.

"Should".

    We are not discussing FTP methods,

I was also discussing FTP. As I said, I believe that I had problems even
with Tramp's (ange-) FTP (although it was over a year ago, in a convoluted
testing thread with Kai G., so I won't swear by this, as I've forgotten the
details). Perhaps Michael can confirm or correct me here about the existence
of FTP problems.

    we are discussing SSH, which is not supported
    by ange-ftp at all, and so there's no alternative to Tramp there.)

That's true. But that doesn't mean that ssh (or sshx) should be the default.
If it works well in all important cases (including local Windows to remote
GNU/Linux), then that's fine; if it doesn't, then perhaps FTP should still
be the default protocol.

    >     I doubt that many Windows users even consider a prospect
    >     of accessing remote files.
    >
    > I think you are wrong about Windows users these days (and
    > perhaps more wrong tomorrow). Did you read the part about
    > developers at large companies having a Windows box in their
    > cubicle and using remote (who knows where?) GNU/Linux
    > boxes for their development?

    My day job is with a large company, where almost all code developers
    use Windows as their desktop OS and either Windows or GNU/Linux as the
    target OS.  So I'm speaking from experience, not from theory.

Good. So we have similar experience here. In that case, why do you think
that few "Windows users even consider a prospect of accessing remote files"?

    > Tramp is an important feature to fix, especially if it is to
    > be the default.

    Please try plink when you have time.  It works quite well for me.

I will try it again when I have some time. Thx. Maybe that's the solution.

    (And generally PuTTY is a wonderful package, IMHO.  I am using it for
    several years, and I have yet to see a single serious bug or
    misfeature.  Since I have it installed, I never looked back on the
    Cygwin ports of ssh.)

Can you (or someone else) point to a simple set of instructions for using
plink and PuTTY? I still want to use Cygwin's bash shell on Windows for
other Emacs stuff, though. Thx.