Re: [H-source-users] Advice on listing a ZTE MF730M 3G dongle

[Andrew Lindley]

From: address@hidden (Michał Masłowski)
Subject: Re: [H-source-users] Advice on listing a ZTE MF730M 3G dongle
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:46:42 +0200

>> The logic of FSF RYF (Respects Your Freedom) hardware certification
>> criteria are that non-free blobs are allowed but only if they're not
>> changeable by the user i.e. fixed in ROM.  This is clear and rational.
> 
> Not true: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/criteria has an
> exception which applies to chips "within which software installation is
> not intended after the user obtains the product".  When Lenovo offers
> nonfree updates for such firmware, while Gluglug doesn't and does not
> mention them being available, then it's ok.  Do you know if every chip
> in a laptop has no support for firmware updates when its builtin
> firmware is working?

Thanks, a case of 'changed since I last read it.'  (You could almost
drive a Raspberry Pi through it now. But which is the 'auxillary
processor' there :-) ).

>> h-node is listing hardware which works with blob free versions of
>> Torvald's kernel.  I'm trying to find out if there's a already
>> rationale distinguishing between 'blobs loaded by the user's kernel'
>> and 'blobs loaded by other means to the device.'
> 
> For h-node.org the requirement is that the hardware works with a "fully
> free operating system", like an FSDG-compliant GNU/Linux distribution.
> If the firmware is shipped in chips and not with the driver or operating
> system, then the device can be listed.

Thanks. 

> 
>> In this case it maintains itself over the air at the user's
>> discretion.  If that somehow affects people's judgement on the issue. 
> 
> It has an interface for firmware updates which most users would know
> about and use?

Well probably not, since its little internal website which does the
upgrade amongst other things is only mentioned in the manual and I've
yet to meet anyone who qualifies as 'most users' who reads manuals
if it just works when they plug it in as this does :-).
 
>> To give related examples - how would h-node list iPhones as
>> peripherals if they like Android did tethered RNDIS 3/4G?  Are any
>> distinctions made between Openmoko/Replicant/Cyanogenmod phones used
>> for this purpose vs locked Androids you can't load libre firmware on?
> 
> Consider them "computers" (for our poorly named "notebooks, netbooks,
> tablet PC" category?), not 3G cards?

I prefer the simplicity of your earlier suggestion - 'if it works with
GNU FSDG distros or Debian main only', it's scalable to the Internet
of Things which also have a USB port.  Otherwise you get into all
sorts of wrangles.  E.g. this dongle is described as 'advanced' so all
that's really different between it and an Android is size, power, voice
calls, a physical screen and apps.  The problem will shortly get much
worse if we do otherwise.

I've long councilled 'maximise your software freedom only' on the
Trisquel forum. So what is effectively a 'dung on the outside of
systems which can be free' policy fits fine with me.

>> If the criteria are simply 'if it works' then fine, but logically even
>> if we do in this situation there should at least be a caveat somewhere
>> in the listing. 
> 
> Warn in this specific entry if you believe that it won't mislead users
> into believing that no other device has this issue.

That's partly why I was asking, there's strong evidence I can't
communicate very much about computers to ordinary [Trisquel e.g.]
users in a way they can understand.  Best I don't mention it then. :-)

Thanks again for the help 

Leny