RE: Beethoven Sonata Op31 No 3 (was Constructive Criticism and a Question)

[Trevor Daniels]

David

I had a look at the bar in the Beethoven Sonata Op 31 No 3
which you mention.  The way to render it correctly in LP
with a '5' over the 5 notes of the second beat and a 12 over
the 12 notes of the third beats is as follows (I've added
the \include, a couple of braces and corrected a few notes
to make it render correctly stand-alone):

\include "english.ly"
\score {
 \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \key ef \major
  \time 3/4
  bf16[d, f ef]
  \times 4/5 {d16[ ef f g a]}                  % ie 5 16th
notes in the time of 4
  \times 8/12 {bf32[a c bf d c bf a g f g ef]} % ie 12 32nd
notes in the time of 8
 }
}
\layout {ragged-right = ##t}

This bar (attached) now looks pretty well the same as my
Augener's Edition of the sonata.  The only difference is the
5 and 12 appear above the notes rather than beneath them.
Perhaps someone more knowledgable could explain how to
change their positioning.

Trevor


> -----Original Message-----
> From: address@hidden
> [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+t.daniels=treda.co.u
> address@hidden Behalf Of
> David Fedoruk
> Sent: 25 December 2006 05:32
> To: Lilypond mailing list
> Subject: Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been watching this discussion or debate.
> There are two ways to
> look at this problem. The first is from a
> programmer's point of view
> where the programmer is experienced with some
> computer languages,
> these days its upper level languages more and
> more. For these people,
> lilypond typesetting code feels comfortable when
> it is syntactically
> correct and when it makes sense in either
> computer or mathematical
> terms. A mathematical algorithm is what they are
> used to seeing.
>
> The other group has less mathematical knowledge,
> very little (very
> little compared to a programmer working on a
> major project like
> Lilypond) programming knowledge or experience. In
> all likelihood the
> only thing that connects these people is the
> printed musical score.
>
> At least in part I think these points have
> already been made. The
> question that occurs to me as a novice Lilypond
> user  (and one who
> jumps in the deep end with complex scores!)  is
> this: How will you
> deal with other types of prolongation or
> compression of notes into one
> or more beats or where the composers intentions
> are clear but they are
> not immediately mathematically correct?
>
> The example below is a single bar from a
> Beethoven Piano Sonata (Opus
> 31 number 3, 1st mvt. bar 53) in which two more
> out of the ordinary
> examples occur next to each other. You will
> excuse any mistakes in
> coding here, this doesn't render as it should.
>
>     upper = \relative c'' {
>         \clef treble
>         \key ef \major
>         \time 3
>
>       bf16[d f ef] \times 5/4 d16[ ef f g a]
> bf32[bf a c bf d c bf a g c g ef]
>
> }
>
> You can see how there are three beams, one for
> the notes in eaech
> beat. The first and second beat are quite clear,
> but the third one has
> eluded me as yet. The score has 12 thirty-second
> notes beamed together
> with  "12" below the note heads.
>
> The printed score is clear to the performer. The
> Lilypond code I
> suspect is far more complex. The only way that 12
> thirty-second notes
> will fit into one beat is if they are triplets,
> but in context, they
> are not played or heard as triplets.
>
> My only comment in this discussion is that the
> Lilypond code to
> represent this short passage should be as clear
> as the printed score I
> am reading.
>
>
> > No argument here - I wasn't advocating a
> specific syntax, but simply
> > raising the possibility that the tuplet's span
> could be an argument of
> > the function. Otherwise, we're simply turning
> \times into \tuplet
> > without really changing anything about its
> functionality.
>
> I think I agree with this, except that any type
> of prolongation or
> compression of notes should be able to use this function.
>
> cheers
>
>
> --
> David Fedoruk
>
>
> http://recordjackethistorian.wordpress.com
> "Music is enough for one's life time, but one
> life time is not enough
> for music" Sergei Rachmaninov
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>

Op 31.png
Description: PNG image