Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties

[address@hidden]

That's exactly the result I was looking for and demonstrates just how 
versatile Lilypond can be with the necessary know-how.

Although this certainly serves as a work-around, I'd still be 
interested in sponsoring a solution where Lilypond can work out the 
control points itself. The mark is quite common in the music I use 
Lilypond for, and I have several (hundred) short pieces in separate 
files which I include in layout files to make 'sets.' Often a piece can 
be included in more than one set. As I use 'minimal page-turning' to 
shrink the pieces to one page, I'd rather not have to hand-tune the 
coordinates each time Lilypond decides to fit the piece to, say, three 
lines instead of four, depending on the other pieces in the set. The 
time spent hand-tuning the ties could better be spent practising 
playing the pieces instead :)

Off topic - would be interested in reading your bezier documentation - 
I have another un-lilypond-related reason for wanting to understand 
them.



>----Original Message----
>From: address@hidden
>Date: 01/08/2008 21:55 
>To: "David Pounder"<address@hidden>
>Cc: <address@hidden>
>Subj: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties
>
>
>More complicated shapes would normally be implemented as
>two cubic Bézier curves spliced together.  This would work
>quite well for the shape you want.  Here's a lash-up using
>three spacer notes in parallel to carry two slurs, just to show
>what could be achieved (this is hardly a practical technique
>for real music, although if there are only one or two such
>slurs and it is important enough, maybe it could serve.)
>The 8 values are to be determined by trial and error.
>
>\relative c' {
>  <<
>    { e4 e }
>    {
>      \override Slur #'control-points =
>        #'((0.75 . -3.5) (1.75 . -5) (2.75 . -3.5) (2.0 . -3.5))
>      s8(
>      \override Slur #'control-points =
>        #'((-1.0 . -3.5) (-1.75 . -3.5) (-0.75 . -5) (0.25 . -3.5))
>      s)( s)
>    }
>  >>
>}
>
>The algorithm to work out 8 possible control points would not
>be too difficult, and the routines to draw Bézier curves are
>already available in LilyPond, but I don't know how difficult it
>would be to select an optimum curve given the surrounding
>environment.  In any case this would need to be done by one
>of the code writers (I'm not one), so that's as far as I can take
>it, I'm afraid.  I've only pursued it this far because I shall
>shortly be documenting Bézier curves and their control-points
>and I needed to understand them better.  Thanks for the
>incentive :)
>
>Trevor
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "David Pounder" <address@hidden>
>To: "Trevor Daniels" <address@hidden>
>Cc: <address@hidden>
>Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:27 PM
>Subject: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties
>
>
>Thanks for the response, but as you say, the overall shape of the tie 
gets 
>lost with the loop.
>
>Would this be horrendous to implement as a new feature, and if it is 
>feasible, how would I go about sponsoring?
>
>David.
>
>------- Original Message -------
>From: "Trevor Daniels" <address@hidden>
>To: address@hidden, address@hidden
>Sent: 1.8.08, 18:59:54
>Subject: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties
>
>You -can- make a cubic Bézier "loop-the-loop" by crossing over the 
two
>intermediate points, but then there is not enough control left to 
achieve
>a nice downward shape on the two halves.  Also you would need to tune
>every such slur manually, which is quite tedious.
>
>Here's an example which shows what might be achieved:
>
>\relative {
>  \override Slur #'control-points =
>    #'((1 . -3.5) (6 . -2) (-1 . -2) (4 . -3.5))
>  e( e)
>}
>
>Trevor
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <address@hidden>
>To: <address@hidden>
>Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:23 AM
>Subject: Loop-the-Loop Ties
>
>
>> Good morning list.
>>
>> Apologies for the cryptic subject header, but what I need to do is
>> difficult to express in words.
>>
>> In short, I need to show two notes tied, where the tie forms a 
circle
>> in the middle, performing a 'loop the loop' before ending at the 
second
>> note. I realise that this probably makes no sense whatsoever, but 
such
>> a tie can be seen in bar 4 and also in the final bar of the 
following
>> link:  http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/collectiondisplay.php?
>> 
pageNum_collection=4&totalRows_collection=13&Record_Type=EC&title=The%
>> 20Elgin%20Collection&link=other.shtml%23ec
>>
>> This mark itself is fairly common in Scottish fiddle music and is 
used
>> to indicate that the notes, though tied, should be emphasized
>> separately by the bow, so that the two notes can be heard 
separately by
>> the listener.
>>
>> I am not a great expert on bezier curves and was wondering if it is
>> possible to use 'control-points' to do this, or would it have to be 
a
>> new feature request?
>>
>> Would be grateful for any help, as I don't know of any other way to
>> represent this bowing.
>>
>> - David
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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