Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid

[Hajo Dezelski]

Hello,

See: Gradient
Read: Solid

The contrast (Gradient) between black (letter) and (dark) brown is not
high enough unless you change the letter colour to white. In one of
the former versions it was very hard to read.

Hajo

---
... indessen wandelt harmlos droben das Gestirn



On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:00 AM, <address@hidden> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. website menus: gradient vs. solid (Graham Percival)
>   2. Re:website menus: gradient vs. solid (Kieren MacMillan)
>   3. Re:new website non-git help (Graham Percival)
>   4. Re:new website draft 8: almost giving up (Graham Percival)
>   5. Re:website menus: gradient vs. solid (Tim McNamara)
>   6. Re:website menus: gradient vs. solid (Andrew Hawryluk)
>   7. Re:website menus: gradient vs. solid (Herbert Niemeyer)
>   8. Re:problems with learning lilypond (Simon Mackenzie)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:41:28 -0700
> From: Graham Percival <address@hidden>
> Subject: website menus: gradient vs. solid
> To: address@hidden
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
> and put it to a vote.
>
> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
> Which is easier to see?
>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>    (ok, the background to the lily icon doesn't match the other
>     shades; this can be fixed easily)
>
> Please DO NOT complain that brown gradients doesn't fit the color
> scheme; changing the colors (either of the gradients or the rest
> of the page) is easy.
>
>
> For the record, I vote in favor of SOME kind of gradients.  (not
> necessarily brown)
> Voting will end in 48 hours.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:51:01 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid
> To: Graham Percival <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hi Graham,
>
>> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
>> Which is easier to see?
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>
> Solid.
>
>> Please DO NOT complain that brown gradients doesn't fit the color
>> scheme; changing the colors (either of the gradients or the rest
>> of the page) is easy.
>
> Regardless, you've likely skewed the poll results [which way, I don't
> know] by adding a colour-change as part of the difference!  ;)
> For example, I don't know that a green gradient would be harder to
> see than a green solid... because I haven't been given the chance to
> compare them.
>
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:41:12 -0700
> From: Graham Percival <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: new website non-git help
> To: Chris Snyder <address@hidden>
> Cc: MonAmiPierrot <address@hidden>, address@hidden
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:51:07AM -0400, Chris Snyder wrote:
>> Andrew Hawryluk wrote:
>> > Could we add a link in the first paragraph to the (upcoming) essay?
>> > Perhaps on the words "beautifully engraved music". The essay was a
>> > prominent feature of the previous web design, and says a lot about the
>> > attention to detail that goes into LilyPond.
>
> We try to avoid links with different text, since that doesn't look
> so nice in pdf and info.  But I've found a few good places to add
> such links.
>
>> Perhaps one place for a link to the essay could be right under the
>> "Excellent classical engraving" subheading near the top of the Features
>> page: "Read more: The LilyPond philosophy"
>
> Ok, done.
>
>> Glancing at the Features page, I also just noticed a typo under
>> "Excellent support:" s/documetation/documentation/
>
> Thanks, fixed.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:59:03 -0700
> From: Graham Percival <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: new website draft 8: almost giving up
> To: address@hidden
> Cc: address@hidden
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 06:39:20PM -0300, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Jan
>> Nieuwenhuizen<address@hidden> wrote:
>> >> - GNU and (new) website can be trimmed from the title.
>> >
>> > We do not want to trim GNU.  Remember the long thread on devel,
>> > where even contributors did not realise we are GNU, or ever heard of it?
>>
>> Whom is this site for?  Are we trying to attract new users (that
>> likely will be confounded by the GNU moniker) , or contributors?
>
> The Introduction section is definitely for attracting new users.
> The home page... well, I guess that's also mostly aimed at new
> users.  As such, I don't mind trimming the GNU from the title.
>
>
>> I am saying that in the propaganda story, the storyline should not go
>> from examples to politics , I think.  Also,  the question
>
> IMO, "you don't need to pay" is a very important part of the
> storyline.  Now, I'm not opposed to changing the name from
> "Freedom" to "Free".
>
>>   Why do LilyPond developers “give away” their work for free?
>>
>> is interesting for a faq, but I doubt the answer will convince users
>> to download.  I am assuming that the Introduction part is an attempt
>> to convince visitors to download and try lilypond as soon as possible.
>
> Maybe Canadians and Singaporeans are most cynical than
> Europeans... actually, I'd be willing to bet money on that,
> irregardless of this debate... but as soon as you say that
> something is free, people assume that it's garbage.  That _might_
> change with high-profile projects like Firefox... but in that
> case, most people assume that it's either funded by Netscape or
> Google.  (Which is pretty much the truth, anyway.)
>
> IMO, it would be dangerous to say "here's a free music engraver,
> without any advertizing, corporate sponsorship[1], or even wacky
> EU grants".  Some people *will* assume that it must be junk.
>
> [1] other than the download sponsorship.
>
>
> The "why do you do this?" is drawn directly from my experience
> mentioning lilypond to non-geeks.  It's the first question from
> musicians, music teachers, non-musicians, and my parents.
> Answering it immediately avoids this confusion.
>
> (I tried to mention that we have a few professors working on
> lilypond -- again, trying to reinforce that we are (mostly)
> serious, skilled, and professional -- but every attempt ended up
> being too wordy.)
>
>
> Again, this material -- both Freedom in general, and "why do
> develoeprs..." -- is clearly marked.  If a reader isn't
> interested, it's easy to skip over it and proceed.
>
>> Also, as smart as search engines may be,  I am not sure that there is
>> stemming that would correlate [free] (the query word) with [freedom]
>> (whats on the page, in the submenu).
>
> It's not that; Jan thought you were objecting to having:
>  LilyPond is Free Software and part of the GNU project.
> on the home page.
>
> Frankly, I'm still not conviced that's a good thing to add, so
> it's understandable that he thought you were complaining about
> that.  :)
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:26:02 -0500
> From: Tim McNamara <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid
> To: lilypond-user <address@hidden>
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Graham Percival wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
>> and put it to a vote.
>>
>> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
>> Which is easier to see?
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>
> Wow, the second one really stands out.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:45:04 -0600
> From: Andrew Hawryluk <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid
> To: Graham Percival <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden
> Message-ID:
>        <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Graham
> Percival<address@hidden> wrote:
>> I'm not certain if the question was clear, so let's do this again
>> and put it to a vote.
>>
>> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
>> Which is easier to see?
>>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>>  http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>>    (ok, the background to the lily icon doesn't match the other
>>     shades; this can be fixed easily)
>
> See? Gradient.
> Read? Solid, at least for the current set of colors.
>
> It may just be that the reverse gradient of the selected item is too
> strong - it disrupts the apparent curvature that the rest of the menu
> seems to have.
>
> Perhaps reducing the contrast within each gradient and increasing the
> contrast between the two gradients will do the trick:
> http://www.apple.com/mac/
>
> On another note, I like the green --> brown transition, but the way it
> is applied to the sub-menu groups the options in distinct bundles of
> color, which may not be the optimum presentation. Alas, I have no
> suggestions short of a dozen different colors in the CSS file (not
> that it would be hard, just boring to type).
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:52:54 -0700
> From: Herbert Niemeyer <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: website menus: gradient vs. solid
> To: lilypond-user <address@hidden>
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Gradients
>> These two images have the same top-level menu item selected.
>> Which is easier to see?
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/solid.png
>>   http://lilypond.org/~graham/gradients.png
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:00:33 +0700
> From: Simon Mackenzie <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: problems with learning lilypond
> To: Mark Polesky <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Here is one example which extends the functionality of table of
> contents macros.
>
> %
> % toc-number : Begin : right align a string(number) against a preset
> gauge-stencil(####) and return the right aligned result
> %
>
> #(define-markup-command (toc-number layout props text) (string?)
>        (let*
>                (
>                        (gauge-stencil (interpret-markup layout props "####"))
>                        (x-ext (ly:stencil-extent gauge-stencil X))
>                        (y-ext (ly:stencil-extent gauge-stencil Y))
>                        (stencil (interpret-markup layout props text))
>                        (gap (- (interval-length x-ext) (interval-length 
> (ly:stencil-extent
> stencil X))))
>                )
>                (interpret-markup layout props (markup #:concat (#:hspace gap 
> text
> #:hspace 1)))
>        )
> )
>
> %
> % toc-number : End
> %
>
> %
> % numTocItem : Begin : Combine two strings and insert them as a single
> tocItemMarkup string into a table of contents.
> %
>
> numTocItem = #(define-music-function (parser location num text)
> (string? string?)
>        "Add a line to the table of content, using the @code{tocItemMarkup}
> paper variable markup"
>        (add-toc-item! 'tocItemMarkup (markup #:line (#:toc-number num text)))
> )
>
> %
> % numTocItem : End
> %
>
> Usage ===================
> In each book part I can now insert the Hymn number and the Hymn title
> and each will be correctly aligned and formatted. Elegant solution and
> straightforward usage.
>
> \book
>        \bookpart {
>                \numTocItem "61." "พระเจ้ายิ่งใหญ่"
>                .
>                .
>                .
>        }
>        \bookpart {
>                \numTocItem "66." "ชีวิตเราพระเจ้า
> ทรงสร้าง"
>                .
>                .
>                .
>        }
> }
>
> See attached pdf for sample toc output. Note all Hymn numbers are
> correctly right aligned and the Hymn titles are correctly left aligned.
> Many thanks to Nicolas Sceaux <address@hidden> for his
> solution to my request posted on address@hidden
>
> Simon
>
> On 13/08/2009, at 02:13, Mark Polesky wrote:
>
>> James E. Bailey wrote:
>>> Surely the calculations can be performed outside of lilypond,
>>> and then simply input into lilypond for a score, right? Or am I
>>> missing something?
>>
>> Sure, but scheme can greatly facilitate things. I should clarify
>> that algorithmic music hardly represents the bulk of my LilyPond
>> work, but I mentioned it as an example of something the benefits
>> from scheme.
>>
>> I'll try to respond differently to what you wrote earlier:
>>
>>> Scheme is, as far as I'm concerned, what other people do to save
>>> typing. In fact, I'm of the opinion that there's no need to use
>>> Scheme, it's just there if you know how to use it. So, if you
>>> take Scheme out of the lilypond learning curve, it's actually
>>> not that difficult.
>>
>> I think what David was saying in his earlier post
>> (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-08/
>> msg00323.html)
>> was that he's gotten to the level where he needs scheme to do what
>> he wants. As one example, if you need your slurs and ties to hide
>> behind time-signatures, scheme is absolutely required, as far as I
>> see it:http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=613
>>
>> Scheme enables far more functionality than simply saving typing.
>> So if you find yourself needing scheme in LilyPond, you may very
>> well find yourself fighting its counterintuitive elements.
>>
>> Certainly scheme isn't "required" to produce beautiful scores, but
>> I typeset a lot of contemporary music, and the demands of the new
>> notation are simply too great to avoid it. So, as I said, perhaps
>> it just depends on your typesetting needs.
>>
>> - Mark
>>
>>
>>
>
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