Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, David Nalesnik <address@hidden> wrote:

> From: David Nalesnik <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <address@hidden>
> Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 2:55 AM
> Hi Jonathan,
> I like this revision of the NR.  I have always
> opted to put these accidentals in, but I can certainly see
> why someone would want to suppress them (read:
> awkward-looking ties!)  Also,
> looking through scores lately with a new eye has shown me
> that actual practice is not all that consistent, as you say.
>  Even in scores that generally repeat accidentals at the
> start of the line, there are occasional inconsistencies.
>  And I have a Henle edition of Chopin mazurkas which
> suppresses them, in contrast to other Henle scores (relative
> simplicity of the music?).  Another Henle edition of Brahms
> piano pieces repeats the accidentals fairly consistently,
> but not when the affected notes are used immediately after
> the tied note (avoiding an awkward-looking repetition, I
> suppose.)  
> 
> The Chopin edition dates to well before Henle
> switched to Finale, but I suspect that some of these omitted
> accidentals are due to notation software.  Then again, I
> have a Boosey&Hawkes collection of new piano music,
> which suppresses them everywhere...except in pieces by
> Wolfgang Rihm.
> 
> I wrote earlier because I had a moment of terror
> thinking that a neat feature of LilyPond would be gone
> forever.  I realize now that, whichever way the defaults
> go, an easy override will be in sight!
> 
> --David

I think some of my initial inclinations about notational conventions 
come from having done things the wrong way 100 times and gotten used 
to it.  As long as the options are clear from the NR, I think Lilypond's 
default behavior on this issue is probably the correct one.

-Jonathan

> 
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:21 AM,
> Jonathan Wilkes <address@hidden>
> wrote:
> 
> --- On Sat, 10/3/09, David Nalesnik <address@hidden>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > From: David Nalesnik <address@hidden>
> 
> > Subject: Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied
> note(s) after a line break
> 
> > To: "Joe Neeman" <address@hidden>
> 
> > Cc: "Jonathan Wilkes" <address@hidden>,
> "lilypond-user" <address@hidden>
> 
> > Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 5:46 AM
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> > According to Gardner Read: "It is not
> 
> > necessary to repeat the accidental before a tied note
> . . .
> 
> > The one exception to this general rule occurs when the
> note
> 
> > or notes affected by the accidental and tied over the
> 
> > barline come at the end of a system or at the bottom
> of the
> 
> > page.  It is helpful to the performer if the
> accidental is
> 
> > repeated . . . " (Music Notation, p.131)
> 
> >
> 
> > I know I have spent a lot of time adding these
> 
> > accidentals in Finale (and redoing them whenever the
> layout
> 
> > changed), and I very much appreciate that 2.12.2 takes
> care
> 
> > of them automatically!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that quote; I don't currently have access to
> Read's manual.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I still have my Beethoven sonatas out from my last
> posting on here,
> 
> and those tied accidentals after line breaks are a lot more
> common than
> 
> I thought.  In the Schenker edition, they're
> inconsistent: sometimes an
> 
> accidental is parenthesized, sometimes its suppressed, but
> more often
> 
> than not they're there.  In Henle they seem to always
> be printed (and
> 
> beautiful).
> 
> 
> 
> However, I've got a Peters edition score where
> they're always suppressed (it's also a modern score,
> and I wonder if that's where the difference
> 
> stems from).
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea: how about just showing the behavior of
> 
> 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break in NR 1.1.1, under
> the heading
> 
> "Accidentals", in the example that follows this
> sentence:
> 
> "Accidentals on tied notes are only printed at the
> beginning of a new system.  [add this] These accidentals
> may also be suppressed."
> 
> 
> 
> [see attached]
> 
> 
> 
> Currently, 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break is only
> listed in NR A.14. In
> 
> fact, I remember seeing it there when I was entering a
> score, and
> 
> spending 10 very confused minutes trying to figure out why
> the heck
> 
> \override Tie #'hide-tied-accidental-after-break =
> ##t wouldn't work!
> 
> (Yes, I know it's a property of Accidental now).
> 
> 
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
>