Re: maintaining advanced power-user Scheme functions

[Phil Holmes]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janek Warchoł" <address@hidden>
To: "Phil Holmes" <address@hidden>
Cc: "Thomas Morley" <address@hidden>; "lilypond-user" 
<address@hidden>; "Phil Hézaine" <address@hidden>; "David 
Nalesnik" <address@hidden>; "LilyPond Developmet Team" 
<address@hidden>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: maintaining advanced power-user Scheme functions


> 2013/8/19 Phil Holmes <address@hidden>:
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janek"
> >> After some thinking, i came to the conclusion that LSR should be
> >> redesigned.
> >> Fristly, it should be a git repository, to make collaboration easy -
> >> when something's a git repository, i have a habit of contributing
> >> stuff there on every opportunity, because even if i do something wrong
> >> i can undo this.
> >
> > I'd guess you're in a minority of about 1% of users who would prefer 
> > using
> > git to using a web interface. The current web interface allows you to
> > copy-and-paste code directly in, or alternatively to type it directly 
> > in.
> > Both are simple and quick. To use git propoerly requires installing a 
> > new
> > program and learning how to use it. Remember yesterday when you 
> > recommended
> > a whole book about how it's used? If that doesn't put off casual
> > contributors, nothing will. I started work on LilyPond by adding 
> > regtests
> > to the LSR. If git had been required, I wouldn't have done so.
>
> A valid concern, but i have a counterargument: there is a web
> interface for git that allows you to copy-and-paste code directly in,
> or alternatively to type it directly in. Both are quite simple and
> quick. This doesn't require installing a new program and learning how
> to use it.
>
> It's github.
>
> I've just checked and made a couple commits using that web interface.
> Plain and simple, *with* all the advantages of git underneath. Of
> course i may be biased, so i invite you to check this with me. I
> believe that i will be able to explain everything that's needed in
> 5-10 minutes. Would you like to try?

I've never used the web interface, but I'm prepared to believe it's quick 
and easy if you say it is.  However, my other opposition to git for this 
purpose is that it's intended as a Version Control system, which is 
completely unnecessary for the LSR - that's just a simple database of text, 
with no version control needed.

> Actually, i believe that it would be good to have lilypond repository
> on github, so that new contributors would be able to create patches
> easily. They wouldn't have to install a virtual machine with Lilydev.
> Found a typo in documentation? Create a fix and submit it in *2
> minutes.*

And completely bu**er the make doc in the process.  That's what the issue 
tracker is for and why the patch control system exists.

> >> Secondly, i think that it shouldn't depend on any particular lilypond
> >> version - in fact, it shouldn't actually run any lilypond in my
> >> opinion. I believe that LSR should hold both snippets' code and their
> >> output, with lilypond version clearly stated, and thus allow to post
> >> snippets for any lilypond version. It would just be a collection of
> >> snippets.
> >
> > The benefit of it running LilyPond is that it shows the result of the 
> > code
> > on the fly - no need to create and upload images. This is another
> > significant benefit.
>
> I'm not sure if i understand. Does LSR compile snippets every time i
> open its webpage?
> Anyway, i'm not saying that LSR shouldn't be able to run LilyPond,
> just that it should not require this for operation.

It compiles the snippets every time one is changed, and stores the resultant 
images in clickable form.  Can git do that?

It also exports the snippets so that they can be imported into the 
documents - which git can't do.

> >> I could elaborate on this topic, but as i don't have time to actually
> >> do something about it it probably wouln't make sense (unless someone
> >> wanted to lead such a change - then i would gladly help).
> >
> > It doesn't need much changing - the main problem is maintaining the web
> > site.
>
> What if the things i pointed out make it hard to maintain?
> I'd just like to point this out:
> - with current system, i know that i'm not going to help with updating
> LSR. If i had more time, i'd gladly do that, but i don't have.
> However, if it was independent from LilyPond version - i.e. updating
> one snippet means that the update becomes instantly visible, because
> updating isn't an all-or-nothing deal - i would gladly update some
> snippets from time to time, if it could be done "via git".
> - i have some valuable snippets and templates myself, and i'd like to
> share them, but i don't see how they could fit with current LSR
> system.
> - i have 79 emails marked "valuable snippet". Adding them to LSR (the
> way it works currently) would require a lot of work, and i don't have
> time for this. But if the LSR worked another way, i could do
> something about it.

If you would actually try the LSR, you'll see it's equally quick to enter 
snippets - each takes a few seconds or a minute at most.  All that you need 
to do is type the snippet (or paste it) and a description - you can't do 
_less_ with any other system.  What do you find so time-consuming?

> If you'd like to discuss this more, i think IRC could be a good idea
> (it's faster) - i'm logged in.

Sorry - I don't use it.

> best,
> Janek

--
Phil Holmes