Re: NSToolbar (was Re: Portability/Compatability between GNUstep<---> Cocoa...)

[Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf]

discuss-gnustep-bounces+lars.sonchocky-helldorf=bbdo-interone.de@gnu.org 
wrote on 14.01.2004 05:52:07:

> Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
> 
> > Jeff Teunissen <deek@d2dc.net> wrote on 13.01.2004 13:55:00:
> > 
> > Hi Jeff,
> > 
> > > And just because something was created by the heir apparent to the
> > > main publisher of the OpenStep specification doesn't mean it's
> > > automatically good.
> > 
> > most of the time I read something from you on the list it is a rant
> > against any new feature to GNUstep that is not covered by the OpenStep
> > specs.
> 
> It appears to me that you are somewhat unfamiliar with the concept of
> evolution vs. revolution.
> 
> Why do I feel the need to say this stuff? In part, it's because it saves 
me
> from having to start a fork; in part, it's because being a clone of 
Cocoa
> (or of OPENSTEP, for that matter) is a sure-fire path to perpetual
> obsolescence for GNUstep. 

O.k. I see you are asserting some things. But can you also substantiate? 
Can you give some facts to prove your claims? (I don't mean this 
rethorical, I _really_ want to know, because) 
I have an oposite opinion: Keeping GNUstep as close as possible to Cocoa 
ensures the interest of (open source (see sourceforge)) Cocoa developers 
and helps porting Apps to GNUstep (or do you just prefer the other 
direction GNUstep -> Cocoa?). I think Apple will never release Cocoa for 
open source Unixes (like *BSD or Linux) even other comercial Unixes are 
unlikely and nobody has heard of a planned release of Cocoa for Windows 
(despite the hordes of Cocoa developers pleading for it). How should this 
lead to a "perpetual obsolescence for GNUstep" when such a lot of Cocoa 
developers are eagerly looking for a cross platform possibility for their 
code? Please enlighten me!

> But mostly, it's because what I'm saying is true.

Oh, I understand! You are the holder of the ultimative and universal 
truth! I bow low before you!

> 
> > It appears to me that you are somewhat religious when it comes to
> > discussions on that topic. So I ask you naive why don't you get an
> > ancient NeXT Box, run OPENSTEP on it (so you are as close to OpenStep 
as
> > possible, but if this is to slow to you just use OPENSTEP/Intel) and
> > live happily ever after?
> 
> Please keep religious arguments out of this -- I have no religion, least 
of
> all a pathetic Cult of NeXT (a subset of the equally-pathetic Cult of
> Steve). My opinions -- all of them -- on user interface design 
(graphical
> and otherwise) have been reached through research and reason, not faith. 


Who did the research? You? Or were it NeXT and Apple? Which company was it 
to publish "Human Interface Guidelines" for their OS first?

Btw. somebody already pointed out that toolbars have been part of the NeXT 
Interface ever since (even NSToolbar as private class)

> Why
> have I not "jumped on the bandwagon"? Because the alternatives that have
> been presented are more ugly, less consistent, and less efficient.

Again, which OS is known to have the most consistent user interface? 
Windows? Unix with CDE, KDE or GNOME, possibly Motif?


You purpot a lot but I miss the prove.

Lars