Re: backart - default backend?

[Gregory John Casamento]

--- Riccardo <multix@ngi.it> wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> > Are dependencies really an issue?  Most users blindly do a apt-get 
> > install gnustep or emerge gnustep and wouldn't care nor notice the 
> > extra dependencies.
>
> stupid users exists.

Allowing extra dependencies does not make one stupid.  :)   Sometimes adding
one can make things so much better it's unbelievable. :)
 
> > For sake of brevity, I will just say that the ldd output is 51 lines 
> > long.  Now, a quick and dirty guesstimate on how many dependencies 
> > GNUstep has:
> 
> I always said gnome is trash. We shouldn't follow their example. Also, 
> possibly there too everything started harmlessy "let's add oango" "let's 
> divide it and make glib and gtk" etc etc etc...

I think the point here is not that we're imitating GNOME, but that adding
another dependency isn't a very onerous thing to do.

> > That's with -art.  The major extra dependency that is required going 
> > from -xlib to -art is libart2, but that is already installed on a lot 
> > of people's computers due to GNOME and is not near as much of a pain to 
> > install as KDE's qt3.
> 
> I am not so stupid to have installed either.
> 
> On the computer I have debian, I have no choice only -art is provided. 
> This in fact is "good" so I can have a look at how it is from time to 
> time.
> 
> > -xlib is ready to meet its end.  It has its purposes - places where you 
> > really can't afford the extra dependencies (advanced users can very 
> > easily use ./configure to change it).  Other than that, -xlib just 
> > looks bad and -art is just a much more capable backend.  Why not have 
> > the users using the same thing that all the developers are using 
> > already?
> 
> xlib looks bad? to me it looks perfectly. 

Sure, it looks perfect, if you don't expect certain features. :)  If art is
made the default, people will still be able to use xlib.

> I can make you a standard 
> screenshot and it is perfect. Of course it has bugs and I'd rather seen 
> them squashed than xlib trashed. Xlib is fast and works well for my use. 
> I has bugs with the font panel etc, but -art essentially has "no" fonts, 
> so...

I'm not sure what you mean that it has "no fonts".   Currently, all you have to
do is to convert the existing fonts you have with the mknfont tool.

XLib has major problems with:

1) Font rendering (point sizes)
2) The font panel
3) Drawing to pixel instead of point.   Granted, on most displays these are
close, but it's enough to be a problem.

> > Hopefully we can come to some conclusion one way or another (whether it 
> > be a poll amongst developers, or what-not).  I am really hoping this 
> > isn't going to turn into the 200 message flame-wars that results in 
> > nothing but confusion as to what actually resulted from the flame war. 
> > (We have far too many of those).  Once and for all lets just end this 
> > question since I have seen it come up far too often.
> >
> too many? this list is a nightmare lately, high-traffic with super-long 
> threads.
> 
> And sometimes I come with really harsh feelings against some persons 
> here (to make a name: A. Perez) who aren't just grown enough to post 
> here. 

Civility is important here.

> The quantity of messages didn't result in new applications for 
> gnustep :) I wonder if all the time that was spent through 
> dicussion/reading/replying to this list was spent in coding... we might 
> have at least a new office clone and a new image manipulation program. 
> Bet on it. And our livers would be healthier.

Heh.

> -R

GJC

=====
Gregory John Casamento 
-- CEO/President Open Logic Corp. (A MD Corp.)
## Maintainer of Gorm (IB Equiv.) for GNUstep.