Re: Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 at 22:15, Sergii Stoian <stoyan255@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> GNUstep libraries, libdispatch, libobjc2 and  build toolchain. Non-GNUstep is 
> my code, NeXTstep graphics (icons, login panel). I hope someday it will be 
> refreshed with new graphics with the NeXT's style.

OK. Thanks for the answers so far.

So what I would like to ask is:

* can you itemise what you are _not_ using, and why?

* can you itemise any new components you're creating, and why?

* are your new components or code under the same license as GNUstep?
If not, why not?

* would you be interested in working withing the GNUstep project and
passing your changes and new code upstream? If not, why not?

> What do you mean "cosmetically"? Icons? Yes. Look and feel? Yes. But it is 
> much more than just look - that's why I need integration with underlying 
> system (look below my CentOS explanations) and spend a lot of time to fill 
> Workspace and applications with uniform, solid user experience (window 
> management, startup, shutdown, keyboard shortcuts, mouse preferences, screen 
> and display management). More to come.

By "cosmetically" I mean that, for instance, GNUstep already has a
workspace manager, but AIUI you are not using it.

You say that you're using some of Window Maker but not all. Why not?
Are you passing changes upstream to Window Maker?


> Not literally forking but current development is based on some outdated 
> GNUstep libraries

Why?

> with some patches. Patches are aimed to be included in GNUstep later.

OK... but why later?

> The main reason is to have some stable base code and focus on applications 
> and environment. Right now I'm the only developer and do not have time to 
> align my code with changing GNUstep.

Is GNUstep really changing that fast?

> After I reach the version 1.0 (it's really close now) I plan to return to 
> GNUstep libraries (I have patches more ideas not implemented yet for GNUstep: 
> screnn resolution handling, high DPI and so on).

OK. How do you intend to "return"?  Take a newer snapshot and work
from that? (This is how Ubuntu  works with respect to Debian.
Basically, every 6 months, they take a snapshot of Debian "sid" and
then work from that.)

Is it part of your intention that your work all ends up in GNUstep?

If not, why not?

I'm not trying to challenge you here but I do not really understand
what you are doing.

You asked:

> I didn't quite catch what's Cacao Linux different from NEXTSPACE 
> (https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace)?
> Do you plan to include some special frameworks, applications? Is it just 
> Debian specific GNUstep build?

I would say that there are 2 main differences.

[1] Gregory wants to use plain code straight from GNUstep and make a
Debian-based distro from it. In contrast you seem to be doing your own
thing, which happens to be mainly based on GNUstep.

[2] Gregory wants a general-purpose distro as a showcase for GNUstep.
Not something that inherits from GNUstep and does more, something that
shows off what GNUstep is and can do.

I hope I understand his intentions correctly.

Do you see the difference?

> Not that much. It's integrated with some system libraries and tools: Xorg 
> (Xkb, XRandR), D-Bus, NetworkManager, PulseAudio, UDisks, UPower. It's not 
> CentOS specific nowadays.

Aren't all those things in (for instance) Debian and openSUSE as well?

People have strong loyalties to their own distros.

Also, some distros are more current, or have better 3rd party support.

Today, Ubuntu is more or less the default Linux for most people. There
is a lot of 3rd party software that only targets Ubuntu. It's a fairly
modern, fairly fast-moving distro with a regular update cycle which is
clear and well understood. It's also quite desktop-focus.

CentOS is a slow-moving, server-centric distro, owned by RH for
reasons that are not clear to me even as a former RH employee. The
"official" free RH distro is Fedora. CentOS is a sort of unsupported
branch of the much slower-moving RHEL.

I personally don't like Fedora much and I don't like RH's package
management tools.

I prefer SUSE and Ubuntu's tools.

My first choice would be Ubuntu, or failing that Debian or Devuan. My
second choice would probably be openSUSE because they pay my bills.
:-)

> I want the NEXTSPACE will be Operating System for users and developers.

OK... So why CentOS then? Why a slow-moving server distro without a
fixed clear update cycle?

> I hope so. And Gregory's kickstarter page quite confusing for that matter.

It is, yes, I agree. But remember the FOSS mantra: "release early,
release often". Better to get it out there than spend ages polishing
it. Failing to do this is what killed Etoilé.


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