Re: Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

[Liam Proven]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 00:47, Sergii Stoian <stoyan255@gmail.com> wrote:

> You can find answers at github page, section "Why am I doing this?". 
> Essential point is a "...look, feel, and design principles of NeXTSTEP ".
> At past in this list I saw numerous discussions about "boring, gray, outdated 
> GUI from 90th". I like it and don't want to waste my time for discussions.

OK.

Personally, I agree on both counts. I think NeXTstep was the
best-looking desktop UI ever created, and I don't want any form of
modernisation or change.

And I also think a rich, complete NeXT-like desktop for Linux is long
long overdue.

[...]

I've edited out my other comments because they were all "OK" or "fair
enough". :-)

> IMHO GWorkspace is the file manager not the Workspace Manager. For example, 
> docking applications to WindowMaker Dock with drag and drop from File Viewer 
> is not possible in GWorkspace by design. There are many such little features 
> (window and application management, focus switches) which seriously affects 
> the overall feeling/UX of desktop.

Hmmm. All right.

>> I'm not trying to challenge you here but I do not really understand
>> what you are doing.
>
> Thank you. I really do understand what am I doing for about 3 years.

Heh. :-D I would hope so!

> I understand. Gregory has already replied me.

Aha! If it was offlist intentionally, then fine. If it was
accidentally -- very easy with this list -- then would you both be
willing to share it?

> Ubuntu has it's own mature desktop. Why it should be replaced?

It has about 6!

Official default: GNOME 3
Optional: KDE, Maté, Xfce, LXDE, Budgie
Unofficial/3rd party: Cinnamon, Enlightenment, Pantheon, and more

So it's one of the most desktop-agnostic distros, along with Fedora.

They are almost all to some extent Windows-like desktops, though, or
things modified from Windows-like desktops.

> And it is great. I have Ubuntu installed aside of CentOS on my laptop. 
> Sometimes Ubuntu losts WiFi, CentOS - never! I like it.
> I don't need to spend days trying to understand why my application behaves 
> wrong after system package updates.

Hmmmm. Interesting.

To be fair, I hear things like this a lot from RH advocates.
Personally, when I tried RH, both when I worked there and privately, I
find it far less reliable than Ubuntu. Stuff doesn't work, needs
manual tweaking, or needs 3rd party drivers which RH don't make
available as they aren't FOSS.

It's just one of those things. Factionalism, which always makes me sad.

> I think the user shouldn't know what's inside your working environment: Cocoa 
> or GNUstep, Linux, Mach or BSD.
> As many users of NeXTSTEP just use it's applications without knowing version 
> of the Mach kernel. ;)

If you include Mac OS X users in that, then yes, I see what you mean.

Sadly the Linux world is not like that -- except perhaps for Android
and ChromeOS.

> Because it lets me do my work. And plenty of 3rd party applications works and 
> supported here (Maya, Davinci Resolve, VirtualBox to name a few).

OK.

> For example: I switch NEXTSPACE development from FreeBSD to CentOS 7. At that 
> time CentOS already has systemd, Ubuntu has upstart. Now it's mainstream.
> Firefox version is 60.2.2 ESR. What fast-movement do you need?

Hmmm. Perhaps I need to try CentOS 7 again. The last time I looked, it
contained very old versions of things.

> Personally, I really tired of fast movement from GNOME 2 to Unity, from Unity 
> to GNOME 3 in Ubuntu.

I think that is unfair.

In its 14 years, Ubuntu switched desktops twice. One to Unity, because
its efforts to participate in GNOME 3 development were rebuffed,
rudely refused.

I supported this. I find the GNOME community hard to interact with and
I strongly dislike GNOME 3 myself.

And then, 5y later, after a HackerNews discussion, it killed off its
own desktop and went back to GNOME 3.

This saddened me and I may yet stop using Ubuntu because of it, but it
was a pragmatic decision, sadly.

>  You can install it right now: 
> https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-install.

I had a look. To be honest, it looks considerably more complex than I
am comfortable with.

ISO files are where I am at. Give me an ISO and I will try it. :-D

> As for me, Etoilé is great playground for conceptual architectural 
> masterpieces without really useful working desktop.

It may be. They never released a working ISO, as far as I know, and
for a lot of people, myself included, if the instructions start with
"get the source here" then we just stop.


> My intention more pragmatic: make comfort, fast and useful desktop 
> environment even in the sake of code beauty. ;)
> And I want it to be less featured by more polished in terms of UI/UX and 
> stability. :)

Laudable aims. Good luck!

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053