Re: [Synaptic-devel] Synaptic development

[Gustavo Niemeyer]

[...]
> I just want to find out what the most often used functions are. These
> are the ones which should be supported the best way.

I think we must concentrate on Upgrade System and Install/Remove
individual packages. That's the main target of Synaptic. Everything
else should surround these options, and make them of easy and
confortable usage.

[...]
> I use both of them. The vpaned is very comfortable on high resolutions,
> since the buttons are in the upper part of the window.

I wonder what resolution you're using, since I'm at 1400x1050 and still
don't like it. OTOH, that's personal taste, and as fair as someone is
maintaining it and it doesn't hurt the other view style, I have nothing
against keeping it in synaptic.

[...]
> This was one error of mine. But I also made some ui fixes for RPM
> systems, since Michael is on Debian only. I even made a new RPM SPEC

Thanks!

> file. So I am aware of the multi distribution issue. I just forget this
> sometimes... :)

No problems..

> I am also on no crusade against the toggle buttons.

Thanks! :-)

> > Let's concentrate on the problem then. What's the problem with the
> > toggle buttons? Where are the user complains you talk about?
> 
> I know how important a good problem description is to estimate possible
> solutions.
> 
> But I cannot do this in this case. Since it is just an unfamiliar
> feeling people have using the toggle buttons. 

My paragraph above was trying to avoid that kind of comment. I live
inside a distribution development environment, and we are quite used
to arguments like "users don't like this" and "the final user won't
like this" when someone is indeed trying to defend its own point
of view. Please, let's avoid these kinds of arguments, without having
a strong base of measurement.

> I and the Gnome Human Interface Guideline think that triggering an
> action from a radio, options or toggle is no good way.

I don't think so. At least until we find a better way of representing
this. As I said, we have heard many things about Synaptic, but the
toggle buttons are not an issue right now.

> The most intuitive way would be to use an action buttons. And in the
> ideal case this buttons should not change function and label, so that
> a user can remember them easily.

I do like the popup-menu idea. But as I said in the other message, we
must polish it, and verify if it is really the way to go, before trying
to mess with what's already working.

> But the 'problem' is that synaptic is too complex and provides too many
> functions to use one button for every action.
> 
> The check box style of many software managers (yast and
> redhat-config-packages) is also only useful on "install/remove" managers
> only - and synaptic goes far beyond this.
> 
> My suggested solutions also violates all of these principles. But it was
> just a suggestion and perhaps a starting point for new ideas.

And that's very nice. I'm not trying to stagnate Synaptic at all. OTOH,
we and many others use Synaptic in production environments, so I'm
just trying to keep what we have in perfect state, until something
which is clearly better is introduced.

> > Nope. I have heard a lot of random comments from Conectiva users,
> > though. Most of them seem to be confused because they know nothing about
> > package updating or package systems. We must try to solve the problem
> > with these cases, but we must *not* hurt the general usage of the
> > software because of them. Otherwise these people won't like the software
> > after they *do* learn the general concepts.
> 
> This was never my intention. "So let's get serious" :)

I know it was not.. :-) The paragraph above should explain why I said
that as well.

> Perhaps we should consider introducing a first start dialog, which
> explains the queuing stuff.

Yes, that could be nice. Something with a "don't show this again"
checkbox.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net