Re: GNU Herds vs RMS/FSF -- joining both

[Davi Leal]

My personal opinion:

 * GNU Herds tries to get its aims [1], offering besides freedom to its users.

     [1] http://gnuherds.org/charter#Aims

 * The FSF job listing is just another way to raise funds for the FSF.




My personal conclusion:

 * There is not any problem the gnuherds project follow using the hosting
   donated by the FSF.  The FSF is lending a hand with the hosting.



You can read the details at the below IRC chat log:




======================================
IRC log
  /server irc.freenode.net  #gnu
  29-04-2008
======================================

 FSF staff:

 * johnsu01
    John Sullivan, Operations Manager for the FSF.

 * mattl
    Matt Lee, Chief Webmaster of the GNU project.

======================================


<davi>  mattl, I think I will not contribute to the FSF job site due to it
               does not match with my personal police. Taking money by offer
               is not the way we, at gnuherds.org, thought the service.

<mattl> davi: what's wrong with taking money?

<davi>  Such money have to go to the developers selected by who post the
        offer, not to the FSF.

<mattl> why?

<davi>  developers does the job-offer tasks, not the FSF

<mattl> i'm sorry, i don't understand.

<davi>  The FSF should be to help free software developers not to do its
        own business on them.  I would like to talk more about it so maybe
        the free software community can get a better free software offer
        listing service

<mattl> you're against the FSF charging money for job postings?

<davi>  yes, I am against it.  Maybe I change my mind, but that is my
        current personal opinion

<mattl> i don't see why you'd be against it. Are you against the FSF?

<ru>    I think it's a good idea for fund-raising, how much does it cost
        to post a job?

<davi>  $250

<mattl> right.  Seems like a good way to raise funds to me :)

<davi>  I am not against the FSF. I am with free software developers
        What is the goal, raise fund or help FS developers?
        the gnuherds.org goal was to help FS developers

<mattl> with the jobs page? to raise funds.

<johnsu01> and help developers find jobs

<davi>  hmm  That was my impression.  That is not the best way to the
        success of FS. It is the best way to the success of the FSF.


<mattl> davi: the jobs page is not just for developer jobs.  There are
              also jobs for sysadmins, contractors, support people,
              architects.  Anyway, did someone ask you to work on the fsf
              jobs page? i'm confused now.

        Note: Maybe I have been lying a little about it:
              mattl introduced Steve Eletor to me.
              Steve told me that he would contribute to gnuherds only if I
              port it to Python, and mattl agreed it could be a good thing.


<ru>    $250 shouldn't be much for a company that's prepared to employ people

<davi>  $250 is to much for people who is looking for help on a FS project.
        At gnuherds.org not only companies can post, people can post too, and
        they have done it with success. Maybe the FSF current job listing
        could take some of such people-freedom features that gnuherds has.

<so_solid_moo>  gnuherds.org is going to charge?

<davi>  no, never.
        gnuherds is managed by its own user, so it would be absurd.

<so_solid_moo>  oh, ok
 so_solid_moo relurks

<johnsu01> davi: if people can pay a salary they can pay $250

<davi>  johnsu01, That $250 will have a better use at the developers hand.
                  Developers are who does the work

<mattl> davi: it's not just for developers!

<johnsu01> davi: the $250 pays for the hosting of gnuherds, for example

<davi>  johnsu01, Such hosting is donated.
                  I have been told that. Donated to the FSF. 

<mattl> the leased line is donated, we don't get servers for nothing. they
        are bought.

<davi>  I see.  It would be good merge some gnuherds feature on the FSF
        offer listing, but it is hard with the current $250 tax

<johnsu01> davi: it's no more of a tax than any other donation program we have

<davi>  I know.
        It just does not match with the functionality designed at gnuherds

<johnsu01> davi: we would like to not charge, and we didn't charge for a long
                 time for that area but we also need to raise funds to support
                 the FSF in creative ways

<davi>  johnsu01, I see


<mattl> davi: if the job page was using the gnuherds software, but still
              charged $250, would you be happy?

<davi>  mattl, That would be a start

        Note: That was a too much quick replym, without thinking too enough.
              IMHO, the problem is not the software being used but the
              functionality which it offers to the user. That is to say, IMHO
              the current gnuherds features are better for an user than the
              one of the FSF listing. The $250 is a problem for some users
              too.
              IMHO freedom to the users of the site is and must be a key
              functionality at gnuherds.


<mattl> davi: are you learning Python now?

<davi>  mattl, I stopped the learning way when I saw the $250 on
               the FSF listing

<mattl> davi: That.. doesn't make sense.

<davi>  Maybe it is good there are such two job offer listing, each one with
        its own goal