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Re: Certain accidentals


From: Urs Liska
Subject: Re: Certain accidentals
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:48:02 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0

Am 18.04.2014 15:38, schrieb Brian Barker:
At 14:41 18/04/2014 +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
2014-04-18 8:26 GMT+02:00 Brian Barker:
But perhaps you are referring to the method of textual input in
Lilypond, where notes that are named "sharp" or "flat" need to be
qualified as such, notwithstanding what the \key indication would
appear already to imply.  (In this way, Lilypond operates somewhat
counterintuitively and against normal musical thinking.)

seriously?
"against normal musical thinking"??

Certainly!  I might not have made myself clear, and no-one needs to take
this as a criticism.

But yes: as we all know, in musical notation, once the key signature has
appeared, the meaning of the lines and spaces on the stave are redefined
to the appropriate sharpened and flattened versions of their natural
values.  In the Lilypond text file, after a \key indication, the names
of the notes still indicate natural versions.  In musical notation,
sharps and flats are indicated only as accidentals; in Lilypond input
notation, they always need indicating.

The Learning Manual says: "New users are often confused by [accidentals
and key signatures]" and "The key signature only affects the printed
accidentals, not the note's pitch! This is a feature that often causes
confusion to newcomers, ...".  I was merely referring to this difficulty.

Look at the output of

{ \key g\major g''2. fis''4 g''1 }

Do you really _think_ g f g while playing/singing? Can't believe that.

No - certainly not (though I know people who do!).  You are quite right
not to believe I could be that foolish.  But there is still a difference
in the representations: in musical notation, a note on the F line after
a key signature of G major represents an F#; in Lilypond notation, an F
after \key g\major represents F natural.

This is because the score is already a graphical representation. So actually it's _this_ part that's causing the confusion: a notehead on the first staff space can represent an f, a fes, a fis - or even a completely different pitch governed by the clef or a generally active transposition. In that sense musical notation is highly ambiguous.

A "fis" in LilyPond syntax is a fis, regardless where it will appear in a score.

Why else would the manual
suggest this might "cause confusion"?

Well, it can be more typing, I don't want it different, though.

I also made no suggestion of any change.

Actually I'm currently in a discussion with a (highly) professional engraver using Amadeus (a Unix/Linux program that has been out of development for 15 years now but is still used by a number of professionals). Amadeus is a text-compiling program that has a number of striking similarities to LilyPond, but also a number of striking differences. Among others, in Amadeus you'll write the pitch you _see_ and not the one you hear. That is when you're in D major you'll write "F" to get a fis, you'd only write fis if you want an extra accidental.

I find that very annoying, but he insists that it is in no way ambiguous (because you always _see_ the score fragment you're working on and the editor also always shows you the effective key). And he insists that it is much more efficient simply because he has to type less.

I also would not ever want to change LilyPond's behaviour in that respect, but I write this to show that there _are_ people (who have to be taken seriously) who would consider the other approach superior.

Best
Urs


Brian Barker

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