RE: ABM/Toolkit futures [was: Swarm futures (was Re: GNUstep and MacOS X Port Effort)]

[Juan A. Rodriguez]

Hi Gulya,

Could you please post the 'Toolkits Developer's Meeting' URL?
Thanks.

Juan.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: address@hidden
> [mailto:address@hidden Behalf Of Gulyas Laszlo
> Sent: viernes, 04 de octubre de 2002 5:39
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: ABM/Toolkit futures [was: Swarm futures (was Re: GNUstep and
> MacOS X Port Effort)]
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I like the idea of approaching ABMs once again with a (more or less)
> freash mind.
>
> Actually, I'm going to moderate a panel on this topic next week at
> the 'Toolkits Developer's Meeting' (Agent 2002), in Chicago. Well,
> the title is 'Where should we be in five years?', but I do intend to
> raise issues like this. Also, a 'DB-based runtime' (to put it loosely)
> has long been a pet idea of mine...
>
> In any case, you guys are obviously welcome to the discussion, although
> it's rather short notice. (I know Roger Burkhart will be there, since he's
> on the panel.) But I'd also like to solicitate ideas from the list.
>
> Best,
>
> Gulya
>
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 address@hidden wrote:
>
> > Marcus G. Daniels writes:
> >  > In it's current form it is good for nothing except historical
> >  > continuity.  But that's the rub, either replacing Swarm with
> something
> >  > new and ambitious and interesting or cleaning-up loose ends
> on the old
> >  > version.  I don't see the benefit of larger codebase
> changes; there are
> >  > too many complications.
> >
> > So, perhaps now is the time to discuss releasing 2.2, freezing it,
> > and starting fresh on a whole new thing!  This is my preferred route.
> >
> > Perhaps we could define a useful Actor Modeling Interface by
> > interpolating between IMA, Ptolemy, COOL, AUML, APrIL etc. and
> > implement that.
> >
> > Or perhaps we could do it in a more bottom-up fashion and pick an
> > extant tool (like Avida or Bobo) with some cool but un-extrapolated
> > features and throw effort into that.
> >
> > Or perhaps we could pick a place where very little work has been
> > done so far like developing a continually evolving OO database whose
> > objects and clusters of objects periodically migrate into the processor
> > for various reasons and marshal themselves to communicate or to
> > travel.
> >
> > Or perhaps we could build an agent-oriented data analysis library
> > that takes the kind of data agent-oriented modelers usually need.
> >
> > The bottom-line, here, is that the SDGs implementation of Swarm is
> > difficult to use.  It makes great strides in bridging the modeler/
> > programmer gap; but, in doing so, burrowed itself in deep enough to
> > make evolving the tool difficult.  On the other hand, many other
> > packages, by adopting simplifying assumptions, are easier to use, but
> > are too limiting to be used for large-scale, long-lived projects,
> > which makes them difficult to evolve, as well.
> >
> > Or, perhaps we do some combination of all of these, as well as
> > continue the evolution of the current codebase.
> >
> > I, personally, believe it's time to back ourselves out of this hole.
> > And that means picking a new "mission", possibly abstract at this
> > point.  If the current codebase fits in with that mission, then great!
> > If it doesn't, then we wrap that code up and get started on something
> > new.
> >
> > I would like the next SwarmFest to hold a relatively long session
> > on this... maybe a whole afternoon.  But, in order to do that and
> > have it be useful, we need a large population of people, with practical
> > ideas in mind, to come bat those ideas around.
> >
> > And this won't happen unless we get some people fired up.
> >
> > glen
> >
>
> --
> --
> Laszlo Gulyas                         address@hidden
> AI Laboratory                         http://www.sztaki.hu/~gulyas/
> Computer and Automation Research Inst.  H-1111, Budapest, Kende u. 13-17.
> Hungarian Academy of Sciences         * 36 1 209-6194
>
> --> On leave at Government Department, Harvard University      <--
> --> 113b VanSerge, Mails: 34 Kirkland st., Cambridge, MA 02138 <--
> --> address@hidden, (617) 384-9088                     <--
>
>
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