Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: trained dependency

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 17:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> However, I've _never_ seen a teacher who
> could do any of this effortlessly.  (Sorry, Zen!)

I didn't intend to imply so at all! Merely that the current system makes
it particularly difficult (by design) for teachers to actually do so.

> You are correct that it is not possible to simply employ
> credentialed individuals and get the desired effect systematically.

AIUI, the "best" private (high) schools in the US have no "certificated"
requirements of their teachers. So those in the know do know this.

> On the other hand, the Japanese school system shows that it's possible
> to entirely stamp out "natural aptitude" from the public behavior of
> 99% of the population.

And this is fundamentally Gatto's point, with which I, and apparently
you, agree.

Violent agreement indeed!

:) Shakes head in desperation. (:

> So it's as my professor said: to foster higher-order education, for
> _most_ teachers _most_ of the time, what they should do is get out of
> the students' way but not so far as to be unavailable when the
> students have questions.  However, I won't go so self-servingly far as
> he did; it is certainly possible to systematically improve originality
> in thinking, but it's very expensive, and currently such teaching
> requires talents that are even harder to teach than "mere"
> originality.  It also requires management which is sympathetic to that
> goal and robust to demands (eg from parents and employers) to achieve
> myopic goals like "better standardized exam scores".

Judging by the fact that we seem to comprehensively agree on these
things, I think I can say this re: Gatto's books: you would not be
surprised by the conclusions (we seem to be quite clear on the results
we see about us), but you may be surprised to find out the reasons we
got here, who and how.

cheers
zen

(PS feel free to recommend better approaches to me for next time I come
out swinging - this thread was a somewhat frustrating experience for me.
Perhaps I need to find out what the socratic method is or something...)