Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games

[Morten Gulbrandsen]

Arend Bayer wrote:
> 
> Hi Morten,
> 
> you wrote:
> > In 9 x 9 Go I believe we could get something like  :
> >       Black wins      70.00%
> >       White wins      25.00%
> >       Tie             5.00%
> >                       100.00%
> > without komi offset.
> > And this I'd like to investigate. When we know the numbers for 9 x 9,
> > then we
> > can investigate if this is true for 19 x 19.
> There some statistics about winning probabilities in even games between
> players of different ranks at the web site of the EGF ratings:
> 
> http://egf.posluh.hr/rating/gor.html
> 
> This might not be exactly what you are looking for, but it is s.th. similar
> and interesting.
> 
> > I'd like to do this, if it is helpful for you. gnugo versus gnugo, and
> > gnugo versus Morten Gulbrandsen. I only play as 13 kyu, so it could be
> > an even match.
> We would certainly be interested to hear how you compete against GNU Go,
> on different board sizes. GNU Go vs GNU Go might also be interesting.
> 
> > I also find it very difficult to understand, why gnugo does not increase
> > its strength
> > with computing speed?  If gnugo plays against itself with different time
> > limits,
> > then how many minutes will it need to play 1 kyu stronger ?
> The strength does increase with more computing speed, but the increase
> will get slower and slower. Strength of chess programs (measured in ELO)
> increases linearly with each duplication of computing power. This is,
> as far as I know, not true for any Go program.


=============================================================
I have some comments on that, branche and bounce, alpha beta algorithm,
speedup, According to the book: 

"Parallell computing, theory and practice"
by Quinn , the maximum expected Speedup is typically 5 or 6.
The book also has some notes about Amdahls law and superlinear speedup.


===================================================================


> 
> Speaking about GNU Go, there are simply mistakes that GNU Go, in its
> current design, would make with any time possibly used. E.g. it makes
> connection mistakes, because there a dynamic connection analysis is not
> yet fully implemented.
> 
> In fact, I would find it quite interesting to know how much GNU Go's
> strength depends on the time spent. Especially, at the moment, I would
> like to know whether it would be worth adding better support for higher
> levels than 10.
> With the program "twogmp" (included in the GNU Go download, in the directory
> interface/gtp_examples) you can do this very comfortably. E.g. you could
> try to run
> 
> twogmp --black '../gnugo --quiet --mode gtp' \
>         --white '../gnugo --level 11 --quiet --mode gtp' \
>         --handicap 1 --games 20
> (This will run 20 games without komi, black GNU Go at level 10, and white
> GNU Go at level 10.)
> (Of course, you can also similarly run one game at a time from cgoban.)
> 

===============================================================================
address@hidden:/tmp/twogmp$ ls -l
total 148
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten        165 Jan  5  2000 Makefile
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten      21455 Oct 24  1999 gmp.c
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten       3977 Oct 23  1999 gmp.h
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten      37852 Mar 31 20:17 gmp.o
-rwxr-xr-x    1 morten   morten      48137 Mar 31 20:17 twogmp
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten       4194 Oct 27  1999 twogmp.c
-rw-r--r--    1 morten   morten      19512 Mar 31 20:17 twogmp.o
address@hidden:/tmp/twogmp$ 

I could compile twogmp


address@hidden:~$ ls -l  twogmp
-rwxr-xr-x    1 morten   morten      48137 Mar 31 20:20 twogmp
and safely copy it to my home directory


address@hidden:~$ ./twogmp --black '../gnugo --quiet --mode gtp'        
--white '../gnugo --level 11 --quiet --mode gtp'         --handicap 1
--games 20
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- g
./twogmp: invalid option -- a
./twogmp: invalid option -- m
./twogmp: invalid option -- e
address@hidden:~$ black       : lack
white       : hite
black_output: 
white_output: 
size        : 20
handicap    : 0

So what can I do now ?

Yours Sincerely

Morten Gulbrandsen

gnugo runs well, perhaps I have an old version ?

address@hidden:~$ gnugo  -v
GNU Go Version 3.0.0
address@hidden:~$ 

address@hidden:~$ which gnugo
/usr/local/bin/gnugo
address@hidden:~$ whereis  gnugo
gnugo: /usr/games/gnugo /usr/local/bin/gnugo
address@hidden:~$ 


now I can go on helping you, testing many games and doing some
statistics.


===============================================================================

> It would be interesting to know the results such a series, and the time
> needed by black and white.
> 
> I will report the result of a similar match later, where I let one
> version play with --owl-threats (which does more reading in some
> situations, needing more time).
> 
> Arend
> 
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