|
| From: | Richard Shimooka |
| Subject: | Re: [Wesnoth-dev] Drake Additions |
| Date: | Fri, 27 May 2005 17:49:25 +0100 |
Those subscribed to the commit message mailing list will have already seen that I've added a level-3 flyer - moreover, I have added marksman to the flyer line. This would normally overpower the faction, but this is part of a larger change at work.
Firstly I'd say it would be prudent that if any change is committed it should be discussed beforehand... not presented as fait accompli. These need to be discussed and argued over even before they are tested. This is especially true of changes that are as major as what you are suggesting. Also it would be nice if they were all revealed at once, rather than piecemeal. I'm not against a completely new balancing per say, however its fairly difficult to discern the effects of such a major change in a faction if its revealed one by one.
Also as I think that at this point there should be a less emphasis on "rebuilding the entire race" when really the drakes are fairly good as is, and don't need massive change. This is especially true given that people want to see a v 1.0 being put out in the near future, we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water by making new major changes. Instead the focus should be on little changes that would enhance the already good base we have right now. Balancing is an insanely difficult task, and making one change is tough enough to see the effects, say nothing of 5 different changes. I think more focus should be placed on the problems at hand rather than making whole new headaches.
Sometime within the next week, I am going to completely remake the saurian tribalist line - graphics and all. A number of people, Sanna especially, have complained about factions being or becoming too similar, a sentiment which I agree with. The tribalist is having his magic attack replaced with a drain attack (along with the rest of his line). The level-2 branch is also being collapsed, since it had little utility. Hitpoints are being increased, slightly. The unit's stats were originally created NOT under the aegis of "every faction needs a unit with a magic attack," but rather under the more destructive "every faction needs a 'mage'." This is quite nearly the antithesis of faction differentiation.
Does every faction need a lvl3? Isn't that a lack of differentiation right there (and unit bloat at the same time?)
Clearly however I and most other MP players have a serious problem with your proposed change of tribalist magic attack to drain. In multiplayer games the the tribalist is a vital unit for dislodging entrenched high defence units like the assassin, elvish archers in the forest and knalgans on mountains. removing it would cripple the Drakes ability to conduct effective offensive operations.
Besides all of this, it has never seemed right to me that in a faction with _fire_breathing_dragons, a primary ranged offensive unit was something else. If nothing else, the tribalist should really be de-emphasized as a combat unit, and formed into what it was originally intended to be - a support unit. Almost all players right now hire the tribalist for his attack capability, not his healing.
So? Just because it was intended to be something and it fit another role even better doesn't mean it should be changed, unless it was unbalancing. Right now it occupies a unique role within the faction, and your proposed changes to make up for it (as I'll discuss later) is a poor substitute.
By having a ranged drain attack, several things are accomplished:a] It is a unique configuration which no other faction has. +faction_differentiation
The saurian is a unique unit, far more weak than its counterpart "mage units" but with added healing trait. Really I use it more against other secondary units like archers or entrenched knalgans, not the typical targets that other magic units are used for. I think most people would agree as it stands its "differentiated enough" and strikes a good balance between gameplay and flavour.
.
b] It removes the cliché "mage" unit from the saurians. +faction_differentiation
Cliche? Its game based in a Fantasy setting. I'd expect some magic being around. Moreover you use the argument that
c] It fits better with the "voodoo/witch doctor/serpentine/jungle" flavor of the unit's magic style +flavor
I can agree with this point, but I think its a minor quibble, and the balancing concerns outweigh it in this case.
d] It makes the unit less volatile - harder to kill with, harder to get killed +gameplay
As I stated before, drain isn't going to cut it. I've spoken about this before in other areas, the cold magic attack for the tribalist is one of the "key skills" that certain factions rely upon (like assassin's poison and the Ulf's berzerk). Removing it just unbalances the faction and causes far more problems.
e] It makes the unit MUCH less common on the battlefield - fitting with the idea of magic being rare and powerful. +flavor
You're repeating yourself, B and E are essentially the same. I count three lvl-1 units that have magic across four factions... thats not that much, especially given that it is a "fantasy based setting."
A side benefit of this is that the sky drake, which is currently of questionable use when compared with saurian skirmishers, will become a much more generally useful unit. Drake players will have a choice of attacking with a unit that can help to ensure a hit, or a unit that can do a lot of damage. Additionally, by having marksman, the drake flyer will still be vulnerable to retaliation during the opponents turn - marksman activates only on the offense, not during retaliation.
Ummm sky drake, questionable use? I think that its quite the opposite as being one of the most effective scouts in the game. this is especially true when Saurian skirmisher gets its long needed movement roll back. In its current 7 movement form its completely unbalanced as has been pointed out over and over again. Really its the reason why so few people are using drakes these days on multiplayer. Right now people are being asked not to play as drakes because of the saurian rush strategy. So its not going to be able to be able to scout like it used to. Moreover at this present time its cheaper than other scout units so I think it doesn't need a change. Secondly what is the rational of having marksmanship? Conceptually it doesn't make sense, and even less so on a gameplay basis. If you think this will make up for removing magical from the tribalist's attack, it won't. firstly, against elvish archers in a forest or a thunderer on a mountain the glider with 20% less defence against pierce and poorer defence will not be effective at all.
This brings me to a third point. At this point the drakes already are a expensive race, and individuals have been griping about this. your changes will likely result in the flyer being upped in price... which is exactly not what is needed for an already expensive race.
I think that with the exception of some of the obvious problems I've already pointed out that these changes should not be applied. It makes little sense to make such major changes, ones which will have a detrimental effect on the already problematic balance in wesnoth.
| [Prev in Thread] | Current Thread | [Next in Thread] |