Re: Fixing overlapping notation

[Anthonys Lists]

On 24/04/2015 20:54, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> Hi Wol,
>
> > I have in general with lilypond - it tries to avoid collsions by separating 
> > stuff vertically. How do I tell it to push them apart *horizontally*
> I have often asked about devising (and paying for) an automated system for this.
> Unfortunately, nobody has taken me up on my offer yet.
>
> > I have seven bars rest in a part. I want some markup starting at the first 
> > barline, and different markup ending at the last barline. If a part has notes, 
> > those markups will separate horizontally naturally - how can I force that to 
> > happen when there's that rest?
> \override Score.RehearsalMark.extra-spacing-width = #’(-0.5 . 0.5)
>
> should help. Adjust the values to suit your needs.

I'll try that. But seeing as it's markup, not a rehearsal mark, I'm 
guessing it won't help ...

> > And secondly, I want a coda sign at the end of an alternative. Of course, it 
> > collides with the repeat spanner
> Did you try \once \override Score.Script.X-offset = #5 or similar?
Doubt it - it was something to do with VoltaSpanner or whatever it's 
called - I'm sure the grob or whatever it is was called something to 
with the repeat mark. Plus I think the argument was something like #'(x . y)

> > The problem with the docu or lsr snippet I found (can't remember which) was (a) 
> > it supposedly shortened all spanners - which I don't want
> Did you use \once?

Yes I did. But it went BEFORE the \alternative { { } { } } stuff, so I'm 
guessing it was meant to apply to all the marks in that particular 
repeat. And when I did the alternatives individually, without using 
\alternative, it didn't work either. Maybe because I just don't 
understand what I'm doing :-)
> > colliding notation is VERY common, and lily really doesn't handle it very well 
> > at all
> I disagree with that strong language. I think Lilypond does very well with 
> almost all collisions — so well, that we take it for granted. However, I agree 
> that certain collisions are not handled gracefully, nor are there adequate (and 
> adequately simple) mechanisms for tweaking. That’s where development efforts 
> need to be focused.

Then why does it cause maybe 90% (if not more) of my grief with 
lilypond? Bear in mind, from my point of view, a page turn can be the 
difference between a part that is playable and a part that is not. If 
squeezing notes closer causes markup to collide and staircase, that's 
VERY painful to me. Things like codas and segnos often fall on repeats 
... almost invariably I'm trying to put rehearsal marks and markups 
together on the same barline ...

I've been using lilypond on and off since the 2.4 days - that's a LONG 
time ago, and I still have to find a solution that works for those 
scenarios. Putting markup on an empty chord is a wonderful trick that 
I've picked up on recently, but even that is only a bandaid - all too 
often lily doesn't put the markup where I put the chord :-( and if I 
start using spacer notes that then causes problems elsewhere ...

I know lilypond is really nice software - I wouldn't be using it else - 
but my use case bumps into collisions - often several - with pretty much 
EVERY piece I do, and in every case lily's default behaviour is wrong. 
And all too often (like here) I don't know how to fix it. I'd much 
rather waste a little horizontal space than a lot of vertical space - as 
I said, often I don't have much space to spare.

Actually, another great tweak I would love to have is the ability to 
force staves closer together ... I've seen some pretty awful parts where 
a down-stack on one staff collides with an up-stack from the staff 
below, but if as engraver I can see that it's not going to do that, it 
would be great to be able to force an overlap. Last I tried (it might 
well have changed since, it was quite a while ago), that seemed 
impossible with lily.

You admit that "certain collisions are not handled gracefully, nor are 
there adequate (and adequately simple) mechanisms for tweaking" - I'm 
sorry if my words sound harsh, but unfortunately that is much too common 
an experience of lily for me.

> > as soon as lily starts staircasing markup it wastes a heck of a lot
> My first tweak, applied in a \context block, should stop that from happening.
>
> Hope this helps!
> Kieren.
Thanks. I'll play with it. Now to look up what a \context block is :-)

(and yes, I do read the docu - I actually proof-read the manuals 
cover-to-cover for Graham many many moons ago. Two or three times :-)

Cheers,
Wol