Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: [GNU-arch-dev] Re: how to fix a bad log message?

[James Blackwell]

>> I understand the model.  I understand the purity/simplicity/rigor
>> arguments. But I also recognize that in the real world things are
>> not nearly as clean as you all want to make it.
>
> Actually, in the 'real world', things are even cleaner, since everyone
> knows you can't go back to fix your mistakes, and there's no mailing
> list to request that feature on. ;)
>
> But of course you mean software management in the real world.  Do you
> have examples of when this proposed undo functionality is required?
> Examples where simply committing a reversal isn't sufficient?

While wearing my supermirror hat, I've had the rare occasion of people
asking me to remirror them because they commited proprietary company
work in a public place.

There's two other practical reasons.

Firstly, Arch could make a mistake (Imagine a problem in revlibs or
.arch-cache).  Without a way for the tool to replace a borked revision,
the user has two choices: either abandon the borked branch, or get
really good at fiddling with the archive format.

Secondly, companies that start off writing proprietary software, but
later open up, often want to clean up the language of commit logs prior
to opening up.





>
> Without examples, I can only guess at why you and many others don't
> find committed reversals adequate.  My best guess so far is posterity
> and perfectionism, which (just FYI) is why the insistence on undo
> seems somewhat petty to me.
>
>> If you want arch to be widely adopted then it needs to accommodate
>> real use cases from users of increasingly lesser technical
>> competence.  Tom seems to think that user desires for an undo
>> capability is already covered by a design that expects the regular
>> piercing of abstraction boundaries:
>
> I can't speak for Tom, but I don't believe Arch covers undo any more
> than, say, PC retailers cover overclocking.  Both offer the ability
> for the *user* to pop the hood and muck with the internals, but that's
> at her own risk (like everything else).  That's a pretty traditional
> aspect of free software.
>
> [snip quote from Tom]
>> To me that is a copout and a recipe for arch acquiring a bad
>> reputation as those increasingly less competent users actually
>> attempt such exercises.
>
> Okay, so we should stop telling users how to do a manual undo?
> Considering how often that issue comes up, I'm all for that. ;)
>
>> Even the most limited undo scheme could actually become a
>> distinctive arch capability, unmatched in most (all?)
>> competing RCSs.
>
> Not really.  CVS has it.  Monotone sounds like it does, given its
> model.  I've heard Darcs has at least reordering of patches; don't
> know if it has removal.
>
> But these have designs that match that capability, or else they
> wouldn't have that capability at all.  CVS has only a single
> repository with no branching, so deleting revisions isn't an issue.
> And last I checked, Monotone is all just about accepting patches or
> not anyway.
>
> Arch is just much more linear than any of that.  Each action is
> recorded as it's performed.  If one of your actions was a mistake,
> then the proper (official) way to correct it is to perform and record
> some more actions.
>
> --+hz2tM55CCA8Ej21
> Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
> Content-Description: Digital signature
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFCCit+8ARHrB3FJfkRAmaeAKCLgCpjnesnWnMGUZIeanSMcGPtMwCgrq5Q
> My/sO24P8TY2vrg8dNAZdOw=
> =SZym
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --+hz2tM55CCA8Ej21--
>
>
>
> --===============0794610449==
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnu-arch-users mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-arch-users
>
> GNU arch home page:
> http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-arch/
> --===============0794610449==--
>
>


-- 
 James Blackwell      |   Life is made of the stuff that hasn't killed
 Tell someone a joke! |   you yet.                       - yours truly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GnuPG (ID 06357400) AAE4 8C76 58DA 5902 761D  247A 8A55 DA73 0635 7400