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Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Re: Serious PHPGroupware


From: Patrick J. Walsh (mr_e)
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Re: Serious PHPGroupware
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 17:30:32 -0700

Well, yikes, I had no idea that there was this kind of animosity behind the scenes. I've been involved in this project on and off as time allows for several years now and I've never had a problem with Dan's leadership. I'm concerned that e-mails like this will scare him away from the task. Instead, I believe, we should all be thanking him for an otherwise thankless task. We're talking about a large project with a huge number of goals. Instead of just a web-based groupware application, it is aimed at being a platform for other groupware applications, web-based or not. I think phpGroupWare 1.0 would have been released a year or more ago if not for this ambitious (and worthy) goal.

The key to helping the project move forward at a good pace is to find ways to help Dan and also to help individual app developers. There needs to be a way for individual application developers to have a release schedule independent of the main phpgw app schedule. They also need to have pages on the phpgroupware web site for providing downloads and information. The new SiteMgr app will facilitate this. I'm hoping that the SiteMgr app's ability to grant specific users write permissions to particular pages will pay off by making the web site more up to date and allowing developers to state what they're working on and when they expect it to be done. If Dan (or a committee, which is even worse) doesn't have to be the central clearing house for this kind of thing, more work can get done.
        
Anyway, I think the 0.9.14 release is very good and all of the core developers, leadership, and etc. deserve some applause. And I want to thank Dan for the huge amount of work that he puts into the project with otherwise very little thanks.

Sincerely,

Patrick (aka mr_e)



--On Sunday, September 08, 2002 7:13 PM -0500,
--Miles Lott <address@hidden> wrote:

I reckon I am feeling fiesty as well.  But that's not a great leap
for me as you may know.  BTW, I am now solely an outside observer of
this
project.  Sorry, no further details from me in this forum.
Anyway, I will also take the bait.

Dan Kuykendall wrote:
As far as handing it off, who has even shown a tiny bit of the
leadership to take over the project? If I saw someone who wanted and
showed that they could run it better and put more energy into the
project, then the rest of the developers would naturally follow behind
this person. I do not "own" the project, I am just do what I can to help

The project is not his to hand off, unless the rest of the remaining
'core team' allow it.  Glad to see you finally state this fact.
BTW, I may not be a leader, but I understand well the importance of a
dissenting opinion.  I also understand the importance of not throwing
molitov cocktails into the code base.

Dont forget that a year ago it became clear that my new job was not
going to allow me as much time for the project, so I stopped being the
single "leader" of the project and instead we switched to a coreteam of
five that were the "leadership team". Even then things havent picked up
because everyones time tends to get cut into by other responsibilities.

Let's not confuse everyone.  It was not your decision to create the core
leadership team.  In fact you fought it tooth and nail.  I cannot
explain
why people continue to follow you, but that is their choice.

> I don't intend this to be inflamatory,

Yeah right, you intend it to be, in at least to get my attention.

> just to understand
> where the project is going and in what time frame.  It's a great
> project with alot of potential that I feel is stifled in a pre-1.0
> state for some unknown set of reasons.

Those reasons were primarily a ridiculously long release schedule
brought
about in part by the following (as stated above):  jengo's hiatus,
dan's,
skeeter's, ceb's, and my irl jobs.  That and the bickering about the
email
app, gif vs. png, and the coreteam arrangement.  Oh, and the fact that i
am too rough on new developers, so they say.

I agree that this is a great project and this pre-1.0 crap needs to end.
I have made it known several times over the last two months that I
intend that the next release be 1.0. Here is an email I sent out a few
weeks ago. I have more to follow up on this and will send out more about
this later.

What is clear is that you 'intend' to make something happen via public
opinion
instead of by way of the voting standard which was agreed upon.  This is
not
a shock to me.  Again, I cannot explain why the others seem to fall in
line.
Maybe they don't, but it is hard to tell when they are largely silent.

--

Miles Lott


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