Re: we now have "lilypond" organization on GitHub

[David Kastrup]

Joseph Rushton Wakeling <address@hidden> writes:

> On 24/09/13 14:09, David Kastrup wrote:
>> You _are_ aware that the _majority_ of current contributors is running
>> Windows?
>>
>> Try setting up a native development environment for LilyPond on
>> Windows.  Come back when you are done.
>
> What is the reason for it being so difficult?

What about "Try it" did you not understand?  Windows does not just allow
you to say

    sudo apt-get build-dep lilypond

Instead you have several dozens of dependencies you have to satisfy by
hand, and then the fun with registry entries and other stuff starts.

So please: stop the cheap pontification until you actually know what you
are talking about.

>>> and the risk is that users are failed because developers weren't
>>> aware of the needs and requirements in cases outside their own
>>> setup.
>>
>> Please compare LilyPond's track record to that of _any_ other project
>> delivering binaries for Linux, FreeBSD, MacOSX (PowerPPC _and_ Intel,
>> I might add) and Windows.  We make a working development release
>> every 2 weeks for all platforms.
>>
>> Which other project does that?  Can you please get more specific
>> about how we are failing our users here?
>
> Well, there could be a point of view that the fact that you can't set
> up a native dev environment on Windows is a pretty serious design
> failure.

No doubt about that, but we're not in the situation to fix Windows.

> But the point wasn't that Lilypond is specifically failing on some
> particular point, the point was that by not designing to enable easy
> development and contribution access across multiple platforms, you
> wind up with a situation where the contributor base is constrained to
> those who can cope with your restrictions.

Look, before you have experience _maintaining_ a cross-platform software
project, stop the pontification.  At my last regular job, we had a
publishing project with a TeX core and Java control logic and some
scripting/packaging.  All cross-platform technology, so we decided to
offer a Windows version because everybody wants Windows and how hard can
it be.  A few man-years later (as there were several people working on
it), we had the thing working.  Deployments?  Some.  Eventually replaced
by virtual machines running GNU/Linux since they were far more robust
and unproblematic.

LilyPond is doing _amazingly_ well.  At least we deliver working
packages that run on Windows.  If you think that a development
environment running under Windows for LilyPond makes any sense, I have
the strong impression that you have no experience whatsoever what you
are talking about.

Pretty thinking gets us only so far.

>>> I found the git-cl experience absolutely inexplicable given that at
>>> the time not only was GitHub offering the service it did, but
>>> similar experiences were available via Bitbucket, Launchpad and
>>> Gitorious.
>>
>> They don't offer command line interfaces into issue trackers, do they?
>
> Off the top of my head, I don't know.  Why does that matter?  The
> web-browser-based tools are much more user-friendly.

git-cl does nothing that you can't do directly in the web browser, so
why don't you use the web browser directly?  Saves you complaining about
git-cl.  Do it for a few weeks of serious work, and you'll be glad
git-cl saves you most of the typery/clickery.

-- 
David Kastrup