Re: we now have "lilypond" organization on GitHub

[Joseph Rushton Wakeling]

On 24/09/13 17:05, David Kastrup wrote:
> No, you are not just "asking".  You are throwing diagnoses around and
> proposing solutions that are known not to work.

I keep asking you questions because I want to correct my ideas and impressions 
if they are wrong.

> > Still, I'm curious -- what is it about making a Windows development
> > environment for Lilypond that doesn't make sense?  Is it just the
> > hassle with the dependencies, or are there other factors?
>
> You are probably assuming that Windows is the market leader for desktop
> operating systems because it the choice of engineers, picking the best
> product made by the best engineers to be found.

OK, now I _know_ that your impression of me is false. :-)

I did originally have some further remarks and questions about Windows 
development, but to be honest, I don't think they're helpful or relevant at this 
point.  I never meant to sidetrack the discussion in that way.

But what follows is I think relevant.

> > My response to Phil wasn't meant to be cheap pontification, it was
> > meant to be simply: "Here are a list of reasons why you shouldn't be
> > complacent about the usability of your tools."
>
> It's always fun to suggest eating humble pie to others.  But I really
> recommend getting some experience _before_ lecturing them.

Forget big-picture pontification -- I never intended to engage in that.  What it 
comes down to is this.

I've contributed code and documentation to a variety of different free software 
projects.  Lilypond stands out among them in being _astonishingly_ difficult to 
contribute to, and this difficulty is almost entirely down to the choice of 
tools and the way in which certain procedures are managed.

In every case, whether it's git-cl, whether it's the way the bug squad duties 
are to be carried out, or whether it's how pull requests are managed, it almost 
always seems to come down to involving unnecessary mental and manual and 
custom-built work where for years there have been standard automated tools that 
would handle those problems.

That makes me very, very sad because I love so many aspects of Lilypond and I 
want very much to contribute.  But -- I'm sorry -- I don't want to tolerate 
unnecessary obstacles to contribution.  I want the time I spend on contributions 
to be spend on writing code or documentation, not on working around finnicky 
tool problems.

I'd be much more willing to temporarily put in that effort to work around those 
issues, if I felt that at least there was recognition of the usability issues I 
(and others) have raised.  But every time there is this reaction: "Why don't you 
do it, then, since you know so well how it ought to be."

Whatever is meant by those saying it, at the end of the day it comes across as: 
"Hey, we don't care about your usability issues, we don't care that it's 
difficult and finnicky to contribute to us, we only care about solving that 
problem if you solve it for us."

And ultimately, that's very demotivating and makes everything about contribution 
feel bad.