Re: Development environment

[Ralf Stephan]

I think we agree to not step into the language war trap so
just let me comment some points.

glen: 
> >Finally, please elaborate on why ObjC is a backward step /wrt Java.
> >If you meant the sophistication of accompanying frameworks, please
> >say so, but then, this is no language issue.
> 
> It's a backward step for two reasons:
> 1) Java is a newer technology that takes advantage of and
> builds upon the cogitation of lots of people about how
> programming should be done.  Not that following with this
> memetic progression is necessarily a wise thing to do, mind
> you; but it is a progression and by using ObjC as your main
> development language, you are not participating in this
> progression.

You are somewhat vague on which memetic progressions took place
with Java that aren't visible with any other OO language.  From 
my shallow experiences with C++/Java/Sather/ObjC I'm inclined to
say all these languages supported any OO paradigms that my work
needed --- hell, I even would state one can write C in a OO way.
But then, my projects weren't possibly big enough to show some
of the languages' deficiencies.
(On a side note, I esp. liked the mathematically rigorous feeling 
of Sather)

> 2) Java has *lots* of people developing it (and extensions

No argument here.  It's fact.

> Anyway, none of this has anything to do with aesthetics.  I,
> personally, think ObjC is a better language than Java.  I like
> it better, I program faster, and I can do more (except for
> some of the net-features).  But, it is a fact that, if you're
> already familiar with both Java and ObjC, then restricting yourself
> to ObjC programming is not a good idea.  I would also argue that
> restricting yourself to Java is not a good idea, though it's
> more defendable than sticking to ObjC.

As you can see above, I'm all with you here.

> p.s. And you're wrong, it is a language issue.  It's a social
> systems issue.  Programs are written by humans.  Humans use
> languages to build those programs and to navigate social systems.
> The language the people use affects/effects (the latter is just
> is appropriate as the former) the social system and the humans,
> and loops back onto the language.... vicious circles.

Serves me right to get a wholistic whack after trying to dissect
a language meme.  A good point in time to close the issue.

> glen e. p. ropella =><= Feeding the hamster wheel.  Hail Eris!

Ewig Hail Discordia.  Agree to disagree.

ralf
-- 
http://www.in-berlin.de/User/rws/

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